Cummins ISC questions...

[steveatpa]

I have recently acquired a 2002 Endeavor with the Cummins ISC 330 hp engine / Allison tranny combo and I'm sure this question has already been asked in various different ways, so sorry for repeating it. I think I read over all the existing posts but I still have a few questions that need answering.

I am not new to working on a Cummins but nonetheless, I want to make sure I do things right the first time. I'm trying to change the oil and I dont know for sure what oil filter I'm supposed to get. I think the Fleetguard number is LF 3639 or LF 9009. I think its supposed to hold somewhere between 20 and 24 qts. Aside from that, is there any specific procedures that I need to know upon changing this engines oil as apposed to the Cummins ISB 5.9? Is there any torque values I need to know? The drain plug, etc,...anything? The manual is worthless for this type of info and I cant find what I need to know on the internet...yet. I really dont want to use the live and learn method since I'm trying to leave for a trip this weekend.

Thank you in advance for any help you have to offer.

[tom wilson]

my 8.3 cummins book says 24 quarts to refill, but i have found 24 qts will show overfill on the dipstick. i have used 23 qts for oil changes. the drain plug called for 60 ft lbs but i never use that much, closer to 40. the first time the plug was removed the drain plug was rounded off, the mechanic used a crescent wrench, when a six sided socket should be used. after that i did all the oil changes. emailed cummins and they sent me a new drain plug. 9009 is the number of the oil filter. put 2 quarts into the new filter before installing it. make sure the gasket is in place. have switched to final charge coolant. no dca4 used.
tom

[EngineerMike]

Tom's advice is good. Only caveats I've heard is the fill volume vs. dip stick and how the H!&^*& do you get that big filter off after the ape before you overtorqued.
Fill vol- you can call Cummins w/your engine# to get a quote on proper fill volume. The problem which affects a small minority of rigs is that factory calibration (coach mfgr, not Cummins) of the dip stick was sometimes wrong as they moved the dipstick to accommodate some other coach mod from time to time & forgot to check how that affected dipstick length. The fill volume is based on the pan, not where HR may have moved the dipstick, but sometimes the latter may have an affect. If you call Cummins & use their volume, you can recalibrate a bad dipstick accordingly; likely your fill volume will correctly register on a correctly marked dipstick based on statistics, but what you have is what you have.

You can make an oversized filter wrench (LF9009 is pretty large compared to most filter wrenches) from a piece of pipe, long bolt & old belt. Long bolt ges thru a hole in one end of pipe to make a handle, old beld gets rivetted to the pipe @ end opposite the handle. You need enough xtra belt to wrap around the filter once plus a tag section to pinch under the pipe end; using the bolt handle from below w/the belt wrapped around the filter you should have enough leverage to undo whatever thread stripping the last monkey applied.

[EngineerMike]

Steve- my ISC/ISL owner's manual says standard pan @ 20 qts + LF9009 @ 4 qts = 24 qts total capacity for the ISC. If you have the "frame stiffener" then add 1 qt for 25.

I was told 3 qts for the 9009, but the book says 4. I'd fill that near to top w/clean oil.

Also, on start-up, the ECM won't allow fuel to flow till the oil pressure is up to minimum, so you'll have some extra cranking the first time which is normal after oil change.

[steveatpa]

Thanks for all the inputs. I really appreciate it. I'm going to get a Baldwin filter since I can get it for about $25 less than the Fleetguard and they're good. Also, I figure from what you guys said, that I'll expect to torque the drain plug to about 40-50 lbs and wont expect to hear it fire right up until oil pressure climbs. As for the frame stiffener, I dont know what that is but there is a smaller normal size looking filter right next to the gigantic oil filter. I'm not sure what it is either but I'm afraid to start messing with to much stuff and not be able to leave this weekend.

Thanks...unless theres something else I need to know.

[heavyequipt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveatpa Thanks for all the inputs. I really appreciate it. I'm going to get a Baldwin filter since I can get it for about $25 less than the Fleetguard and they're good. Also, I figure from what you guys said, that I'll expect to torque the drain plug to about 40-50 lbs and wont expect to hear it fire right up until oil pressure climbs. As for the frame stiffener, I dont know what that is but there is a smaller normal size looking filter right next to the gigantic oil filter. I'm not sure what it is either but I'm afraid to start messing with to much stuff and not be able to leave this weekend. Thanks...unless theres something else I need to know.

That small filter next to the lubricating oil filter is your engine coolant filter.Above it is a manual shut-off that has to be closed when replaceing the coolant filter,so you wont lose coolant.

[EngineerMike]

iiwm, I'd get the fleetguard. The internals are very different from the baldwin. Baldwin advertises one test on which they do well in filtration, but that's the only one. The Fleetguard has more and better features IMO. Now most of the info on this is produced by the respective companies, so take em both w/a grain. However, for something that will be on my engine for 20,000 miles, I'll blow the few bucks extra.
You can google baldwin vs. fleetwood and find references.

I'm virtually certain you don't have frame stiffener, but if you do, worst case is you start 1qt low, and the min. low fill is 4qt low (16 in the pan vs. 20, at which point IIRC you get an alarm). Pretty sure also you'll find out @ 24qts if that fills it up; only way not is if the dipstick is wrongly calibrated. But still only a qt off so no big deal.

[David K]

I would also stay with the Fleetguard filter vs the Baldwin -- same reason as stated above and the price is not something to make a difference considering the cost of the engine that it is protecting. The smaller filter is the coolant filter that was stated above. It should also be changed out periodically and if you are using a coolant that requires DCA additive, you can get water filters that will give a slow charge of DCA as the engine runs.

I use a spider wrench to remove the filters on my MH -- you can get one for usually less than $15.00 and they use a standard ratchet wrench and extensions for turning -- plus if the filter is on too tight (the ape before was strong) it is easy to get additional torque for the removal by putting a piece of pipe on the socket wrench :-).

[Happycarz]

Steve,
Many of the ICS had the dipstick improperly marked, creating an overfill condition when filled to the full mark. If, after changing the oil, you find excess blowby out the slobber tube, let the oil seek its own level - usually a couple of quarts lower than the full mark, but still in the safe working range. You will know of such condition quickly if the mud flap, back of motorhome and toad get covered with an oil mist.

[Rex]

You did not mention changing the fuel filters. You have one on the passenger side of the engine, and another in the compartment where the air conditioner fan is located, the one you need a barrel key to open.

Cummins says not to fill these filters with fuel when changing them. Change one filter, then turn the key on for a minimum of 30 seconds, and do this 5 times, then start the engine. When it is running smoothly, shut it down and change the other filter following the same procedure.

The coolant filter should be changed with each oil change. If you change the coolant to final charge, then you don't need a coolant filter. You can talk to a Cummins shop about a dummy filter to leave in place. Otherwise the coolant filter adds chemical to the coolant to keep it in balance. Turn the valve above the coolant filter 90-degrees to turn it off, change the filter and open the valve.