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Old 01-08-2019, 12:18 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by 08Navigator View Post
Don, I know of you...actually talked on phone.....I have your racing software on a altalab system. Boost change due to the fact I changed the turbo and the entire exhaust system...you retained all your original stuff right? Just did delete?
BTW..I have a whole pile of original cummins parts, due to the settlement agreement I had with them... brand new turbo in box, new actuator, new injectors, blah blah blah, big list.....maybe you want..I have no need, make a heck of a deal. You will love em if you ever need them!

OK, not sure I need the parts but you never know. What does your car look like in case I see you at a race.?


I retained everything but did the delete, removed the exhaust catalyst, and tuned out the bad stuff.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:26 AM   #380
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WOW, I read through this entire topic. What a great ending. Kudos to you for digging in having never been in a diesel before. I was a mechanic in the army for a while decades ago and I'm still not sure I'd dig in to that project. Actually, if I had the shop you did and could do it inside, I would.

Great job! Thanks for detailing it here.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:08 PM   #381
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Yep, that's exactly what I was looking at..appears they just added a PDI turbo inline with the stock Cummins unit...I bet that runs nice! I was thinking of doing the same thing...and perhaps add a wastegate so that I don't over do the boost...Thinking I could get my boost back up to 38-40 PSI...plus spool it up faster...Maybe you or someone could chime in and let me know if I would actually feel a difference with 8-10 psi..I have been reading a little on turbo function/selection...and how to determine what the best set up is....its not as easy as one would think...actually a pretty deep topic. I just figure if Cummins ran it up to 38-40, I can safely do the same. Thanks!!


I like the idea of the add on twin in-line turbo charger. With this set up you get the performance and economy. The original vgt turbo spoils up quickly, opens up at higher exhaust flow. The vgt greatly adds to the engine braking system. The second turbo would allow higher boost pressures when needed, and one more huge benefit is that the second turbo will lower exhaust temperatures.

I worked for Ford as an Engineer on the Diesel emissions aftertreatment team. We specked out and tested the DOC, DPF and SCR catalyst systems on dynamometers and in durability fleets. Ford and International/Navistar found out with the twin in-line turbo set up on the 6.4L V8 Diesel engine (used in the Super Dutys) that the lower exhaust temps were detrimental to the efficient operation of the aftertreatment system. The reason being that more fuel was needed in the calibration to keep the exhaust temperatures downstream of the second turbo high enough for the aftertreatment system to work properly and meet the emissions spec. Ask anyone with a stock 6.4L Super Duty with the emissions system in place about their fuel mileage verse the previous 6.0L and 7.3L engines. This was one of the biggest complaints right out of the chute with the 6.4L. They had plenty of problems with EGR/ cooler systems along with the new DPF catalyst too (the SCR came later on the 6.7 Ford Diesel engine).

With all this said I know for a fact that the 6.4L Navistar Diesel can be tuned to some very high HP and Torque levels with very high reliability. I personally knew a guy that had a 2007 F250 extended cab short bed 4x4 lifted with bigger tires that he purchased new. He removed the aftertreatment and recalibrated the engine. At that time the engine was putting out around 670hp and 1200 p/ft. Of torque! He was getting 19 MPG around town and 21 MPG on the expressway. He said that he took it to the track and ran high 12 seconds in the quarter mile with it! He said that this tune was very conservative and very reliable and would be perfect for towing a very heavy trailer. He did have to upgrade the transmission and torque converter and install latter bars on the rear suspension to handle the added torque. He said that he had to be very careful on how he drove it so that he would not twist the driveshaft off! As far as I know that guy still has that truck. I will make some inquiries to see if he still owns it and how it has held up over the years. I know he said that the new Ford 6.7L cannot handle much upgrading to the stock tuning. He said the turbo was too small and most of all the block cannot handle the added torque. I did see that the second generation of the 6.7L had a upgraded larger turbo charger. Maybe block upgrades too. I digress.

With this said I would love to hear from anyone that has installed this twin inline turbo set up on a ISX. I would bet there would be some fantastic numbers for HP, Torque and Fuel Milage and reliability if installed right with a good calibration. The thing is that even if one were to install this set up on a old coach, one would still need to pull the head and update the valves (all those years of running hot and sitting rusting).

If I were purchasing one of these ISXs in an older motor coach, I would be thinking to myself I was rolling the dice on that drive home :-(. Not a good feeling at all.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:13 PM   #382
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I was just thinking more about the twin turbo set up. I wonder how many people out there with big CAT engines with VGTs in their DP coaches have installed a twin turbo set up? If anyone has, please reply.
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:59 PM   #383
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I was just thinking more about the twin turbo set up. I wonder how many people out there with big CAT engines with VGTs in their DP coaches have installed a twin turbo set up? If anyone has, please reply.
I drive a 2006 T800 KW Heavy Haul tractor with the Cat C15 twin turbo 550 hp. No problems with over 250000 first rig with 50 psi on the CAC system. Great engine
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:36 AM   #384
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I have a question, did anyone have a horseshoe bend in their exhaust pipe about 5 inch's just past the particulate filter? Our mechanic found this anomaly on our rig.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:05 AM   #385
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Determining if upgraded valves were used ....

Hello all, I spent about an hour yesterday reading every post from this thread in an effort to better understand the situation as it pertains to the challenge I happen to have.

Currently, I have a 2010 American Eagle 45B with the ISX650. I traded for the coach from a client who actually bought the coach from me 4 years ago. About 2 months into his ownership or Jan. 2015, the dreaded #6 cylinder reared its ugly head and torched the motor. Cummins rebuilt the engine in Atlanta under warranty and I have the detailed repair order with part numbers. That job was performed at 13k miles, now the coach has 25k miles but still runs and drives great!

Before I sell this coach to anyone, I want to know what I have and if it is substandard or at risk, address that before selling it. How can I tell if the head Cummins Atlanta installed in Feb. 2015 has the upgraded valves or not?

If not, can I scope the engine through an injector being pulled or any other way? The coach is really fantastic, I'm a huge fan of the American Coach series and like 08Navigator, am determined to resolve the risk as much as humanly possible. Even if it means spending some serious money to get there. I have no interest in peddling anyone a potential problem.

The head they installed has a part # of, 4331387RX Product code is DRC. Which I am told stands for, Diesel Recon Component. The core or original head part # was 3412280D.

I understand it is possible the head they installed could have been reconditioned from a several hundred thousand mile core, I can't do anything about that now. I'm more interested to know about the valves they used back in 2015. From the thread, it seems doubtful they used the ungraded piston rings back then. Feel free to weigh in on that too. Product code on pistons and rings were all CECO. Which I think is Compressor Engineering Corporation. Part # 2881878 for pistons, they only replaced 4 liners. Also CECO supplied. Part # 4309389.

Thoughts or knowledge to offer?
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:24 AM   #386
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Hello,

The part numbers used in 2017 were different than the numbers you provided.

If selling your coach my suggestion would be to put and one or two year warranty on the coach. Make sure the warranty is transferable and covers engine failure. This will give the new owner piece of mind and transfer risk from you.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:58 AM   #387
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Hello,

The part numbers used in 2017 were different than the numbers you provided.

If selling your coach my suggestion would be to put and one or two year warranty on the coach. Make sure the warranty is transferable and covers engine failure. This will give the new owner piece of mind and transfer risk from you.
That's an interesting idea. Anyone have suggestions on warranty companies they have had good experiences with?

Thanks!
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:59 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Scott_Ales View Post
Hello all, I spent about an hour yesterday reading every post from this thread in an effort to better understand the situation as it pertains to the challenge I happen to have.

Currently, I have a 2010 American Eagle 45B with the ISX650. I traded for the coach from a client who actually bought the coach from me 4 years ago. About 2 months into his ownership or Jan. 2015, the dreaded #6 cylinder reared its ugly head and torched the motor. Cummins rebuilt the engine in Atlanta under warranty and I have the detailed repair order with part numbers. That job was performed at 13k miles, now the coach has 25k miles but still runs and drives great!

Before I sell this coach to anyone, I want to know what I have and if it is substandard or at risk, address that before selling it. How can I tell if the head Cummins Atlanta installed in Feb. 2015 has the upgraded valves or not?

If not, can I scope the engine through an injector being pulled or any other way? The coach is really fantastic, I'm a huge fan of the American Coach series and like 08Navigator, am determined to resolve the risk as much as humanly possible. Even if it means spending some serious money to get there. I have no interest in peddling anyone a potential problem.

The head they installed has a part # of, 4331387RX Product code is DRC. Which I am told stands for, Diesel Recon Component. The core or original head part # was 3412280D.

I understand it is possible the head they installed could have been reconditioned from a several hundred thousand mile core, I can't do anything about that now. I'm more interested to know about the valves they used back in 2015. From the thread, it seems doubtful they used the ungraded piston rings back then. Feel free to weigh in on that too. Product code on pistons and rings were all CECO. Which I think is Compressor Engineering Corporation. Part # 2881878 for pistons, they only replaced 4 liners. Also CECO supplied. Part # 4309389.

Thoughts or knowledge to offer?
I have a 2011 45B and had the failure last year. I found a breakdown of when the head and valves were updated.

The head number you have had the new valve start in August 2014. The seat will not be the update.

Anything after late 2016 will have new casting, valves and seats.

There is suppose to be a way of inspecting the valves with a scope. Not sure if they can find anything unless it close to failure.
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:24 AM   #389
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Download Cummins TSB150130 dated 05-Dec-2016. It shows the progression of part numbers. The first iteration did not include the valve seat add'n and Cummins can't even verify the correct valve use since they were "slipstreaming" parts. (Use up the old parts first). That is why I had mine rebuilt this month as I got one of the first rebuilt heads off the line in 2015. Cummins in Coburg OR says at least one valve was showing a "spot" and one liner had what they called rust damage. I drove to the shop (100 miles one way) and looked at the liner damage. To me it looked like acid damage as it was pretty deep. So my $20,000 preemptive rebuild became a $26,000 rebuild. Still in the shop for final checkout, waiting for a call to pick it up now.
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:30 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Ales View Post
Hello all, I spent about an hour yesterday reading every post from this thread in an effort to better understand the situation as it pertains to the challenge I happen to have.

Currently, I have a 2010 American Eagle 45B with the ISX650. I traded for the coach from a client who actually bought the coach from me 4 years ago. About 2 months into his ownership or Jan. 2015, the dreaded #6 cylinder reared its ugly head and torched the motor. Cummins rebuilt the engine in Atlanta under warranty and I have the detailed repair order with part numbers. That job was performed at 13k miles, now the coach has 25k miles but still runs and drives great!

Before I sell this coach to anyone, I want to know what I have and if it is substandard or at risk, address that before selling it. How can I tell if the head Cummins Atlanta installed in Feb. 2015 has the upgraded valves or not?

If not, can I scope the engine through an injector being pulled or any other way? The coach is really fantastic, I'm a huge fan of the American Coach series and like 08Navigator, am determined to resolve the risk as much as humanly possible. Even if it means spending some serious money to get there. I have no interest in peddling anyone a potential problem.

The head they installed has a part # of, 4331387RX Product code is DRC. Which I am told stands for, Diesel Recon Component. The core or original head part # was 3412280D.

I understand it is possible the head they installed could have been reconditioned from a several hundred thousand mile core, I can't do anything about that now. I'm more interested to know about the valves they used back in 2015. From the thread, it seems doubtful they used the ungraded piston rings back then. Feel free to weigh in on that too. Product code on pistons and rings were all CECO. Which I think is Compressor Engineering Corporation. Part # 2881878 for pistons, they only replaced 4 liners. Also CECO supplied. Part # 4309389.

Thoughts or knowledge to offer?
The 4331387 head does not have the valve seat modification but should have the better valves. The latest head is 5413782 and was released Sept 1 2016.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:27 PM   #391
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The 4331387 head does not have the valve seat modification but should have the better valves. The latest head is 5413782 and was released Sept 1 2016.
Thanks, it's crazy that the Cummins dealers cannot point me to any documents that support what they actually used. So far at least. Is the document you have for public consumption and unavailable?
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:25 PM   #392
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