Cummins overhaul advice (400HP)

[buck454]

Recently placed a deposit on MH (to pickup in 2 weeks) with 32K mileage on couch in genera,l but 5K on what I thought was new motor but I find it is not a new motor but the motor had a "complete inline overhaul" in Dec 2010. I think this is a good thing, but would appreciate some advice and thoughts from any Cummins "experts". I talked with previous owner and was told of incident that lead to overhaul. What should I expect in the way of warranty on a" inline overhaul", l if any. I have been givne the name of truck center that did the service. Should it not be the dealership making the sale's responsibility to provide me with some sort of documentation?

thanks in advance.

Bill aka buck454

[BarkAvenue]

OK I am going to take a real stab in the dark and hope my info may be helpful. We previously owned a 40 Monaco DP that had a 400 Cummins and at about 10k miles the Turbo Charger blew.
We had bought the RV used with 6000 miles on it about nine months prior to the blow out.
It was a 2006 Diplomat.
We took it to a local Cummins authorized dealer, we also had warranty insurance ( won't go into that). In a nutshell Cummins honored the warranty and did all the work at their cost. They also told us that each engine has a serial number and the history of the engine can be tracked thru that.
Based on our experience I would call Cummins direct, perhaps Customer Service and see if this is in fact true and perhaps you will be able to find out all the info you are looking for.
Needless to say we were extremely impressed and pleased with Cummins.
Hope this info may help you....ya never know..
Maybe the truck center would know if and where you could locate the serial number....I would then contact Cummins with your concerns and questions.

[buck454]

Bark,
Good information. I have sent the truck center an e-mail asking if they might furnish me some information, but I failed to give serial number so that is something I need to obtain. I think the idea of contancting Cummins is good also. Warranty insurance could be something I should inquire about, possibly suggesting dealership to be a part of.

thanks.

Bill

Again, I think all this is a good thing, but not sure. It is just not a subject of which I have much knowledge.

[BarkAvenue]

Well will once again jump right in, only can go by our experience. We bought our Monaco from a dealer in Tucson, AZ it was our second 40 foot DP. Have no issues with the dealership...after a lot of discussion and prior issues we thought we would stay ahead of the curve when we bought and we invested in a "Service contract" thru the dealership, it was for five years. The dealerships make $$$$ on these big time.
It did not come cheap but we thought well this will work out well and help us should anything big arise. WRONG! WRONG! AND WRONG.
We did read the policy etc. I will not go into the horrid details, suffice to say it got ugly and we found out so much about what they would do and what they would not do.
We found out too that they contract out the "inspectors" . The idiot that came to look at the issues on our RV at our mechanic shop lied about the day and time he came and the reason we know that is, the shop was closed on that day and time. He also told the Cummins Mechanic that he had mis-diagnoised the problem!
After many calls with these people I used some very unlady like words and hung up on them. They would not listen had no intention of paying for anything and called some big ticket items "maintenance"!
Cummins ended up coming thru for us with Gold Stars and we absolutely wonderful. The bill was right about $6000.00
We ended up canceling the policy and were able to get back a little over 80% of our "investment". Suffice to say we will never do that ever again. We will simply take our chances.
If your buy a warranty know exactly what it is, what it pays and what it does not pay.....there is a real fine line in my opinion. Also make sure that should you change your mind, you can cancel and get a refund. Know how the refund is processed, ours had to be in writing thru the dealership and in a certain time frame....lots of loop holes and none in your best interest.
Please post if you hear anything from Cummins....and good luck!
Paula aka BarkAvenue

[Gary RVRoamer]

It's hard to imagine an ISL needing any kind of "overhaul" with 32k miles, so I'm guessing that something failed prematurely and it was repaired without having to remove the engine from the rig. Depending on the age of the engine, it may well still be under warranty. Contacting Cummins is a smart move, I think.

I've never heard the term "inline overhaul", but the ISL is a 6 cylinder in-line engine. Could that be what they meant?

[buck454]

I have not found out exactly what 'inline" referrs to, but working on it. I have chatted briefly with previous owner about incident that caused engine failure. Seems it had something to do with a somewhat hidden hole in a hose going to breather that in possibly heavy rain water sucked water through breather and into engine. Although not knowledgeable about big desiel motors, I suspect the water took out the rings and valves. Also not sure why Cummins did not warranty and owner had to pay $20K to fix, but it happened and I am just trying to assure myself that this should not be a deal breaker. This overhaul took place in 12/2010 and did have a 1 year warranty which brings up the issue of is the warranty only good at this truck center (Lubbuck Texas, a long way from NE Texas or whereever if I was to have trouble).

I am waiting for the dealership to give me the serial number so that I might try to track the work through truck center and/or Cummins.

[pkmesser]

Someone is probably confusing "inline" with "inframe". Which means the work was done w/o removing the engine from the vehicle.

[buck454]

I, too, am thinking they mean inframe.

Should I be concerned about such an overhaul? Should I not just think of it as a needed fi, good to go, and not taking anything from future performance?
b

[Parkerrs]

As stated earlier they are probably meaning "in-frame" which is a common procedure for large truck engines.

It amounts to everything done the same as when the engine is removed except the crankshaft is not removed from the block and machined, this is only neccessary if the rod or main bearing journals of the crank are damaged or worn undersize. Also the block itself is not removed from the vehicle. All main bearings are replaced one at a time even though the crank is not removed. You have new bearings, liners, pistons, pins,rings and seals. You also have a rebuilt or remanufactured head along with valve train components which were deemed out of spec. The injector pump should have been replaced or rebuilt along with the injectors, If the turbo was damaged it has been replaced as it's not considered part of an in-frame unless damaged or charged extra for.

If this work was done by an authorized or certified Cummins facility the one year warranty is viable and serviceable at any Cummins dealer or service center. If it was performed by an independent service facility, your warranty is through them.

[buck454]

Tommy,
I think you are quiet right with your thoughts on the overhaul and the mention that it was a complete inline overhaul hints of a thorough job. I think water could have caused such a need. Of course, I want to know exactly what lead to this "hole in the hose". Job was done by Lubbock Truck Cente,. I called them up on Internet and they appears to be a very large business.

I am anxious to get in this new (to us) MH, but don't want to console myself to much that all is OK if it is not. I'm a tad skeptical anyway about the maker of the MH (Gulfstream-I really wanted a Newmar, but my wife had major influence), however previous owner seemed very satisfied (after numerous problems were fixed early on) and has had plenty of time to have worked out all the kinks. For someone to have lived in it for 365 days a year, it was almost unbelievably clean (and yet detailed by dealership) throughout inside and basement, with 2010 tires and good service. My problem now is I am having to cover for a boss who is having surgery and will not be able to pickup MH for two weeks. At least the dealership is having time to add those extras we requested in the deal (another LG LED, WG Trav'ler 1000, HDMI wiring, some tow stuff, etc).

[Parkerrs]

You'll like the trav'ler dish, I love mine.

If it's the same lubbock truck dealer I saw on the internet your engines remaining warranty should be viable through Cummins nationwide, but I would check with them. I would think that rather than the water actually destroying the engine, it probably destroyed the air filter and then the engine succumbed to dust contamination. Or if the hole in the piping was after the filter then you were ingesting dust from this. Cummins would not warranty this as it was not a failure of their engine.

The manufacturer of the chassis is responsible for the air cleaner and plumbing choice and installation. They only purchase the bare engine from Cummins and install it in the chassis. Cummins provides specifications for the intake system and it's neccessary volumes as well as cooling system requirements and exhaust requirements. It is up to the chassis manufacturer to purchase and install components which meet these specs. Failure of any of these components which lead to the demise of an engine either from not meeting Cummins spec or improper installation or maintenance are not the responsibility of Cummins.

That is the explanation I have seen on many damaged engine threads. From my perspective it makes sense that if they didn't make or install the component then they can't be responsible for the damage it caused. In this such case the chassis manufacturer should be held accountable for the damage, but if the warranty had expired and there was no way to prove it was like that from the start then you are left holding the bag as unpleasant as it is.

[buck454]

T,
I believe that is pretty much to way it came down. I believe the filter kept getting dust & grime but whomever was not finding problem but I suppose casting blame on someone else. Anyway, then came the water and to scenerio you suggested probably took place. Your explaination of Cummins position fits perfectly and gives me better understanding to why individual ended up with a $20K. I suspect someones neglect that he had to pay the price for.

Consiering the Cummins dealership, warranty, etc, would you give thought to worry about life of motor over what it was 32K ago? I will still try to contact L truck center and get more details.

Thank you very much for replies.

Bill aka buck454

Are you pleased with your 400, would it not be the same type motor as we are discussing? The 2006 GS G7 is a 41' but probably no heavier than your KS. Doesyours tow well? I will be towing a Chevy Colorado Crew cap 4x4. b

[DRBARBER001]

I would consider short changing your oil maybe at 4k or so the nx 12k mi but get oil samples before each change and save all the results

[Parkerrs]

I wouldn't have any worry as to the longevity of the in-framed engine at all. But I would make sure that all of the intake plumbing is correct, sealing completely and not rubbing anything which could make a hole.

Other than that as stated above do an oil change when you get it with an oil sample and file it as a base for your next changes and samples.

I used to own and operate several OTR trucks and an in-frame is as reliable as new when done properly. Ive ran 10 and 11 litre diesels 500,000 miles before an in-frame, then over the million mile mark after the in-frame. My last truck had a series 60 Detroit which went 750,000 before in-frame and showed 1.2 million when I sold it. The ISL series Cummins is designed for this type of service with proper care and maintenance. A motorhome application is a walk in the park for this engine.

The key is maintenance. If the PO had caught the intake problem, then he would have saved an overhaul and only paid to fix the dusting source. After the problem existed long enough it took out the rings and blow-by probably fuel washed the bearings. These engines do have a rated dusting amount for their life cycle before overhaul. Mileage is usually the culprit, but if a problem or leaking intake is introduced you have increased the dusting and shortened the life of the entire engine before overhaul. After the overhaul you are back to sqaure one.