DEF deletion, any way???

[Milford 47]

There is no proof that the increased carbon footprint from building, maintaining the DEF systems, and producing, shipping and storing DEF saves anything. It is just a lab proven theory but no real numbers in the real world to substantiate anything at all. Very similar to the Ethanol debate regarding carbon footprint. Lots of numbers and none of them agree on anything. Modern Diesel Engines run very clean without all the DEF BS

Now I don't want to upset you greenies, you can just add another solar panel and skip your showers and we will all be happy

[HaRVey 74.5]

Pigman1 - If Cummins mandated the de-rating of our engines during a service, that is the basis for a huge class action law suit and buy back program similar to what I went through a few years ago with my VW TDI, which gave me the option of selling back to VW (more than I paid), or wait for some future correction/de-rate, plus a penalty fee to me.
Yelling at the service manager or Cummins is not enough. If Cummins did as you say, you should immediately find legal representation because you no longer have the vehicle you were promised or purchased!

[Pigman1]

Originally Posted by HaRVey 74.5

Pigman1 - If Cummins mandated the de-rating of our engines during a service, that is the basis for a huge class action law suit and buy back program similar to what I went through a few years ago with my VW TDI, which gave me the option of selling back to VW (more than I paid), or wait for some future correction/de-rate, plus a penalty fee to me.
Yelling at the service manager or Cummins is not enough. If Cummins did as you say, you should immediately find legal representation because you no longer have the vehicle you were promised or purchased!

The problem is that there's no way to prove it. The data about the "upgrade" hides behind such euphemisms as refining performance, meeting requirements, periodic updating of software and alike. As I said, if I told the tale about what the service manager said, he'd deny it and we'd be in the " he said, he said" thing. You could probably fight it and maybe win, but I'd be dead by the time they settled and still wouldn't admit anything. All you'd have was a big legal bill for your attorney and ulcers.

[HaRVey 74.5]

Originally Posted by Pigman1

The problem is that there's no way to prove it. The data about the "upgrade" hides behind such euphemisms as refining performance, meeting requirements, periodic updating of software and alike. As I said, if I told the tale about what the service manager said, he'd deny it and we'd be in the " he said, he said" thing. You could probably fight it and maybe win, but I'd be dead by the time they settled and still wouldn't admit anything. All you'd have was a big legal bill for your attorney and ulcers.

True, and then we would be forced to watch more "Electric cars are here..." commercials like the one funded by VW as part of their law suit.

[Old-Biscuit]

My only personal experience with DEF....UREA is not on a vehicle but on the boilers I operated for major utility company power plant


We installed a UREA Injection System that sprayed UREA solution (35%) directly into the gas flames in order to lower the stack Nox Emission


Used the system for 1 year.....year of continuous failures.
Nozzles clogging, stainless steel lines clogging, pumps leaking, etc

The few times it worked it did lower Nox numbers
But we were able achieve lower Nox numbers by just changing the way we fired the boilers.....air/fuel ratio


Not a fan.
But don't like catalytic converters either

[Renipladlo]

For those with DEF systems, not a fan, but new one on order will have it. Search YouTube and find various videos on DEF, you will learn lots. Not to be mean, but owners who don't have DEF engines, have not used them, and hence have no experience with them, really what do you know, and how can you help the original poster? We also even me, don't appreciate the smart cracks. Posters wants real answers, not hogwash. I cannot speak to Spartan Chassis, but lots of MH's have Freightliner chasses, they when assembling it, put the DEF system on the chassis, Cummins does not, but, between Cummins and FL, the units used are starting to show some problems. I believe it's related to the following:

1. OTR rigs (big trucks) most likely just fill the DEF tank at the truck stop. How good is that DEF, has it gotten contaminated in the tank, has it gone over its expected life? Has it gotten hot, cold, has someone at night come along and thrown some other liquid in the tank? Do truck drivers take the time to use test strips to make sure the DEF is at the correct ratio of urea and distilled water?

2. DEF has a specific chemical composition, see this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvh7...index=33&t=12s

so using some type of testing process is maybe something anyone with DEF should do. I know I am, just not sure what, and once its opened (assume 2.5 gallon jug) how long can I wait before it’s used. For me, open, test, put in the DEF tank, and try to use it up within 3-4 months. Repeat as needed, not letting the tank go below half full.

3. DEF can crystalize in the DEF tank, which is not good, clogs filters, means it over its life or has gotten very warm, and heat is a DEF killer. The process to fix that issue can be time consuming, but there is a process to follow and anyone with some DYI skills should be able to do it. The freightliner website should have it on their someplace. I would post it here, but my laptop after ASUS update through MS Updates turned into a brick, and I am awaiting a USB boot drive to repair it.

I suggest all search DEF issues on this forum, and read what has happened. See the link above and watch part 2. Forearmed is forewarned about problems ahead.

To the OP, NO, I don’t recommend you take the DEF system off your coach, I believe it will then really screw up the way it operates, no, DEF is not a party, but if you learn as much as you can about the stuff, I believe the pain will get better.

[Milford 47]

Interesting how much BS and bad info gets onto the forums. The DELETE has been performed on hundreds of thousands of engines and guess what they all run better.

DEF is permeate that usually is run through a mixed bed polisher and of course has urea fertilizer added. CO(NH2)2 is of course what is added and you can see the break down products in an old jug would be what? Way way to much BS out there and way to much over thinking. Just use a bit of common sense and to the OP original point yes the DEF system is a huge maintenance item forever and at some point is going to fail at least one time. If DEF evaporates or is allowed to concentrate then it does form crystals as expected so store it properly and don't worry about the expiration date.

[Yoders2Go]

We feel good about not being a detriment to our environment by having the DEF functionality.
I have to ask, what is your complaint about it? Surely not the cost!

[rschopp]

Originally Posted by Pigman1

I understand your post, but disagree. That's the way it's supposed to work but, in fact, the DEF systems are starting to show more and more breakdowns and are a considerable drain on funds for truckers and others with diesels. When the DEF systems become as reliable as the older diesels that would go 250,000 miles with nothing much beyond oil and filter changes, then people won't be looking to disconnect and defeat the systems. This is another case of a good idea, poorly executed and then mandated by a government playing Big Brother driven by know little or nothing environmentalists who don't care what it costs YOU (but not them). These days the best trained, most conscientious repair facilities are reduced to the remove and replace this and that until MAYBE the problem disappears...or until you get far enough down the road that it becomes someone else's problem. Anyone who doesn't believe that that's the case is living in the la-la land of complete denial. All you need is a problem or two to see how obvious this is. The recalls are now starting, and age and mileage are running up to where the repairs are getting very costly. Just do a search for DEF issues on the web. Give us a good reliable and economical system and people wouldn't be looking for ways to defeat it.

Great information.

[skypilot_1]

Well as long you feel good, thats all that matters....forget about reality

[zzotte]

It’s not worth the money if you get caught just the fine will be more then what had cost you for all the DEF you could had purchase, besides who wants to pollute any way.

Zzotte

[jharrell]

Originally Posted by Milford 47

Modern Diesel Engines run very clean without all the DEF BS

They put out 40 times the NOx with out DEF, your one deleted rig equals forty DEF rigs going down the road.

Pre-DEF engines were EGR to the max and richer mixtures to lower combustion temps to try and control NOx without DEF. Once the more stringent NOx standard came into effect there was no other choice than a SCR system. EPA doesn't really care how you control NOx, you just have to hit the numbers, currently no other known way to do it and still have good power/performance. Navistar tried and look what happened with them and the Maxxforce. Volkswagen said they could, but they actually just lied, look what happened to them.

Now with SCR the engines can reduce EGR and run leaner with hotter temps allowing better fuel mileage and more power because the DEF takes care of the NOx in the exhaust.

You go way back and no one cared about NOx and ran hot and lean, no DPF either, we also had smog and acid rain.

[xrcris]

Originally Posted by jharrell

You go way back and no one cared about NOx and ran hot and lean, no DPF either, we also had smog and acid rain.

Still got all that thanks to China and India. US is to the point of spending 90% of the money chasing the last 10% of the pollution. (Thankfully my old 7.3 runs like a top without all the stuff that was supposed to make it "better")

[Mr.Disaster]

The other issue is that you will not be able to trade that rig in to a dealer. It is against federal law for dealers to sell a vehicle that has has the pollution controls system removed (deleted).