Diesel Additive

[Dave 430]

We just purchased a 2007 CC with a 400 HP Cummins engine. During our looking/pricing and such several dealers advised me and showed me a tank where you put in the diesel additive. A couple of the brand new coaches did not require this additive. Now, getting back to my 2007 engine, during the walk through. I posed that question to the dealership. They advised me that as long as I used low-sulfur #2 diesel fuel, I would not need that additive.
My question is ..DO I need to put in that additive, just to be safe and maintain any warranty left on the engine?


Thanks,

[Steve Ownby]

Dave,

That additive, DEF, is only necessary with an engine manufactured after the 2010 emissions date. Your Cummins does not have the tank.

[CHCam42]

No on the additive. I think 2010 was the first year engines required it.

[Cat320]

One reason we got an 09 model was that I did not want to fool with DEF...it does not have it.

[Ray,IN]

Those "dealers" confused you by talking about two entirely different additives. The previous replies are correct information about the additive required by the EPA to reduce diesel exhaust emissions on 2010 and later engines; which is the tank you were shown. The other additive that was talked about is a fuel additive that is mixed with diesel fuel. Today's diesel fuel is low quality, it barely meets lubricity requirements. A good fuel additive can pay for itself by prolonging engine life and slightly better mileage. You will find the results of a lubricity study here.

[ottffss]

ray clears up the important difference in "additives."

However, the use of additives in diesel fuel is a highly religious topic. You'll need to do what "feels" right to you. I will say that the statement "Today's diesel fuel is low quality" is a total mis-speak. Engines of 2007 and newer all run/last PERFECTLY on the inherent lower lubricity of ULSD (your only choice BTW). You will also find that your engine manual (self serving or not) most likely specifically says "fuel additives are not necessary" and may in fact be a little more adamant to say don't use them.

Again, you need to decide. Search these forums and you'll find the religious fuel additives debate repeated over and over and over. What YOU decide is what's good for YOU on this topic. You'll also be pointed to study after study (are they self serving or not too?).

My religion is NOT to use ANY fuel additives - I tend to favor the recommendations of the engine designer/manufacturer (self serving or not). No additives which also follows my KISS philosophy. I drive sub zero temperatures regularly and diesel sold in cold areas is ALREADY winterized so I won't add anything there. I do not park long in tropical areas where algae sometimes rears its ugly head, but that would be the ONLY time I might consider an algaecide IF it became a problem.

YMMV - good luck on your new, awesome rig!

[Beagle RC Air]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottffss ray clears up the important difference in "additives." However, the use of additives in diesel fuel is a highly religious topic. You'll need to do what "feels" right to you. I will say that the statement "Today's diesel fuel is low quality" is a total mis-speak. Engines of 2007 and newer all run/last PERFECTLY on the inherent lower lubricity of ULSD (your only choice BTW). You will also find that your engine manual (self serving or not) most likely specifically says "fuel additives are not necessary" and may in fact be a little more adamant to say don't use them. Again, you need to decide. Search these forums and you'll find the religious fuel additives debate repeated over and over and over. What YOU decide is what's good for YOU on this topic. You'll also be pointed to study after study (are they self serving or not too?). My religion is NOT to use ANY fuel additives - I tend to favor the recommendations of the engine designer/manufacturer (self serving or not). No additives which also follows my KISS philosophy. I drive sub zero temperatures regularly and diesel sold in cold areas is ALREADY winterized so I won't add anything there. I do not park long in tropical areas where algae sometimes rears its ugly head, but that would be the ONLY time I might consider an algaecide IF it became a problem. YMMV - good luck on your new, awesome rig!

Good response! Only thing I feel you might have left out is, to keep the fuel topped off when RV is in storage for more than a few weeks. This is to keep moisture from our damp weather forming on the inside of the fuel cell.

Beagle

[Cat320]

Here's a quote from my engine owner's manual: "The engine has been optimized for use with an aftertreatment system to meet the 2007 US EPA regulations. In order to meet these regulations, ULS diesel fuel is required for correct operation of the aftertreatment system."

It also states that the cetane numbers for operating at or above 32 degrees F is 42 and 45 if operating below that temperature.

[ImagineIF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat320 One reason we got an 09 model was that I did not want to fool with DEF...it does not have it.

You don't have a DEF requirement, but you do have the problematic exhaust regeneration system :-(

[dons2346]

Lots of advise from non Country Coach owners which is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Before you dump anything into the reservoir, I would find out for sure what the tank is for.

A good place for Country Coach specific questions is on the Yahoo groups Country Coach forum.

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dons2346 Lots of advise from non Country Coach owners which is worth exactly what you paid for it. Before you dump anything into the reservoir, I would find out for sure what the tank is for.

OP does not have the tank - they were confused about tanks vs. additives and the whole ULSD "thing" after looking at numerous different year rigs. Pretty easy to to get confused with that much info thrown at you.

Whether a CC owner or not is completely irrelevant to answer the OP.

My $.02: Understanding and sticking to the questions asked is usually a good and polite policy.

[Cat320]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImagineIF You don't have a DEF requirement, but you do have the problematic exhaust regeneration system :-(

Yep, sure do. On our last trip, I got a "High Exhaust System Temperature" idiot light. Called Spartan and the tech said it is part of the emissions control system and is due to the regeneration of the after treatment diesel particle filter. He said keep driving and it would go off...I did and it did.

I have to be careful here or I'll tell you more than I know!

[BCooke]

Not a CC owner, but a diesel engine owner and multiple engines upkeep.

Dave just make sure the engine is for ULSD not just LSD. There was a low sulfur diesel (500 ppm) and now Ultra low Sulfur diesel (15 ppm).
As long as the engine is a 2007 you are ok. http://www.sbmar.com/Maintenance/PDF...tin_Nov-07.pdf

[dons2346]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottffss OP does not have the tank - they were confused about tanks vs. additives and the whole ULSD "thing" after looking at numerous different year rigs. Pretty easy to to get confused with that much info thrown at you. Whether a CC owner or not is completely irrelevant to answer the OP. My $.02: Understanding and sticking to the questions asked is usually a good and polite policy.

The OP said he was showed a "tank". Now, not knowing the whole story it is dangerous to assume he does or doesn't have a tank and what that tank is supposed to hold.

There are several tanks on a CC, one for coolant, one for the hydro hot, one for the power steering, window washer fluid, etc. By giving wrong advise to the OP, you are setting him for a potentially serious problem if he does indeed put the wrong stuff in it.

My $.02: Don't give advise unless you are completely familiar with with the model coach involved.