Community Forums

spike45 · 05-05-2011, 08:58 PM

Chuck,

Is traveling your hobby or working on your MH?

Heavy duty trucking companies drain the filter first then remove it. Punch a small hole in the dome end of the filter while it is hot. After draining the filter there will be much less oil mess on your hands of the engine. Pre-fill the new filter with oil. I know it is heavier but it is best practice in avoiding a dry start up.

What coolant did you get that does not require a coolant filter with the chemical additive? Hopefully not DEXCOOL. Any engine that requires a fully formulated coolant will consume the additive during loaded engine operation. The additive is a sacrificial chemical that must be replaced periodically hence the need for a coolant filter such as Fleetguard WF2071 or other equivalent. You may also add a supplemental coolant additive (SCA) using liquid such as DCA4 liquid, DCA2, Pencool 3000, Nalcool, etc. Hate to burst your bubble but ethylene glycol is very biodegradeable. Had you poured it into your lawn and added a lot of water to aid its soaking into the soil so no pet could drink it the resulting fluid would degrade in about 3 days. Many waste treatment plants allow the sewering of used coolants when you send a lot of water with it. Bugs at the plant will love the taste! 8^)

From reading your extensive post you really did grasp an important factor, the amount of water that is left in an engine when it is drained and flushed. Hope you used one of the one step flush products like the Prestone One Step made of sodium citrate. Very effective at removal of light scale and corrosion. Simple after flush with water.

Steve Ownby · 05-05-2011, 09:19 PM

Hey Spike45,

How about using one of the OAT type coolants. I have to admit that the idea of coolant lasting 6 years with one addition of a supplement ay 3 years sounds very good.

spike45 · 05-06-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Ownby

Hey Spike45,

How about using one of the OAT type coolants. I have to admit that the idea of coolant lasting 6 years with one addition of a supplement ay 3 years sounds very good.

Yes, that does sound like something that would suit anybody. Too bad that the marketing bulletins and sales literature do not tell customers that OAT coolants tend to have a higher leak rate than conventional chemistry coolants. That is also true of our own OAT coolant.

The latest iteration of OAT coolant is nitrite-free OAT. No test kit available will tell you if you are protected or not against liner pitting though including ours. All of the new generation OAT coolants are fairly pricey. Stick with a conventional coolant like Fleet Charge, ES Compleat, several others. If you like doing maintenance on a yearly basis or 150,000 miles, use a blank filter if your engine is equipped with a water filter head. Then use a quart of extender liquid for ES Compleat or use three pint bottles of DCA4 liquid or use Pencool 3000 (4 pints) if you service on a mileage basis of 150,000 miles.

The added cost of OAT coupled with the increase leak rate does not make OAT coolant a good deal. It is just an alternative chemistry not something that sets the world on fire. When people get enough experience with OAT coolants they find they spent more and got less, even in our own product.

Mr_D · 05-25-2011, 12:23 AM

My system takes only 12 gallons, I drained the old coolant, I had previously added a drain/flush at the front and pulled that apart to drain it all. Then I refilled with plain water and warmed the engine up with the heater on. I drained it and added distilled water, then warmed the engine up with the heater on again. Then I drained it again. Then I added the DCA (that's what Cummins calls their SCA additive) to the pure coolant till I had 6 gallons of antifreeze in along with the DCA, then finished with distilled water only.
When you drain the system you only get part of the coolant out, in my case it was about 8½ gallons out of 12, leaving 3½ in the system. If I had only added 50/50 mix I wouldn't have a true 50% mix due to the 3½ gallons of water still left.

Mr_D · 05-25-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike45

What coolant did you get that does not require a coolant filter with the chemical additive?

Any coolant that requires DCA can be used without an additive in the filter. just be sure to add the correct amount of DCA when refilling the system. That's one reason they make a "0" DCA filter.

spike45 · 05-25-2011, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D

Any coolant that requires DCA can be used without an additive in the filter. just be sure to add the correct amount of DCA when refilling the system. That's one reason they make a "0" DCA filter.

A coolant filter containing chemistry is used to replace what the engine consumes in operation. The chemistry (nitrite and molybdate) is sacrificial. The original coolant with DCA or similar coolant additive will provide an initial precharge to the cooling system. Running the engine consumes the additives as they provide a "coating" on the liners that is blasted away by cavitation bubbles. The harder the engine runs, the faster the depletion. If you are only using fully formulated premix and a blank filter and never adding any liquid SCA, you will find out how much a new set of liners will cost. In-frame overhauls in Motor Homes are a lot more than in a truck with easy access to the engine.

Check your O&M guide. Cummins says to do cooling system maintenance on a PM schedule. These schedules typically will tell you to change the coolant filter (specific recommended filter part numbers) at each PM. Cummins does not say that using fully formulated premixed coolants meeting their specifications relieves you of the need to change the coolant filter with chemistry.

Zero (0) unit filters were not released for the reason you believe. Zero unit filters such as the Fleetguard WF2077 or WF2122 or Wf2123 were released for customers who prefer to add the "maintenance dose of DCA" by using liquids. The HD trucking industry used liquid dosing from Nalcool, Pencool and others before coolant filters were widely popular. When those customers started populating their fleets with engines having coolant filters, they continued to do the maintenance dose via liquids.

Norm4015 · 05-25-2011, 05:15 PM

Remember, 2005 and later Cummins engines do not have a coolant filter.

spike45 · 05-25-2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm4015

Remember, 2005 and later Cummins engines do not have a coolant filter.

That is only true on ISL and early ISC. All engine families above Midrange use coolant filters as the head is part of the engine. The predecessor C8.3 always had a coolant filter. Cost reduction projects have removed the filter from the ISL and later ISC. Most of the readers of these forums will not keep your MH long enough to see the benefits of coolant filtration in removing solid contaminants and abrasive particles. Some OAT coolant manufacturers say coolant filters are not necessary. I have already covered that topic before.

ISB and earlier B5.9L never had coolant filters. Neither do those engines experience cavitation pitting. The jury is still out on the ISB 6.7 but so far, no reports from my contacts at Cummins in Columbus IN that there are any.