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05-30-2013, 04:42 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 24
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ISB Cummins 5.9L Turbo Sticking
Hi guys. This is my first post with you all. Hoping you can help.
I have a 2003 39Z Bounder with the ISB Cummin's 5.9L Turbo Diesel. Last fall I was having some problems with the coach blowing a lot of black smoke intermittently. Ultimately it cleared up before I stored the coach for the winter.
This past week I got the coach out of storage and discovered I could not produce any power with the coach. The best speed I could acheive was 50-60mph on a flat.
I drove it to a local Cummins Engine repair shop for a diagnosis. Along the way sometimes it would work and I would have power and sometimes it would not. They tell me my turbo and the EGR are bad and need replacing to the tune of $3800-$4000
They gave me part numbers of 57004869 for the Engine, 4089945RX for the Turbo and 4955438RX for the EGR.
I am fairly mechanically inclined and would like to tackle this job myself to save $$$$ but I can't seem to find anything with the numbers they gave me.
In fact I found very little if anything about this motor. I am also looking for a step by step procedure on how to replace this turbo if that existed anywhere.
Does anyone know of somewhere I could purchase these parts or possible have my turbo rebuilt?
Also has anyone had similar problems with this motor and how did you handle it.
I'm not convinced it's the Turbo. Could it be old fuel or and sticky Waste Gate Valve?
I know there are a lot of questions here but any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
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05-30-2013, 05:03 PM
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#2
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Junior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 6
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Our EGR valve stuck open after 8 hours of driving from Colorado Springs CO to Albuquerque NM in March of 2012. Symptoms the same as what you describe. I don't think the turbo can be correctly evaluated with a bad EGR valve in the mix. Also, do some research on the EGR cooler as the OEM versions are not very good. Aftermarket with exchange are around $400. You could also consider going the illegal route of eliminating the EGR valve--kits are under $200. Problem aside from legality considerations is that you also need a modified ECM. The off-road Dodge pickup crowd came up with the idea.
If you are fairly mechanically inclined, changing the EGR valve is not difficult. Some special tools (modified wrenches) make the job easier. As old as your engine is you should be prepared for bolts to break, etc. You should also order new steel marman clamps as well as extra gaskets--small cost, but the gaskets are easy to damage. Don't forget to inspect and thoroughly clean the EGR cooler, or consider replacing with an aftermarket version.
As for the turbo, it's teeny-tiny and very tough. Bearings typically go out because of inadequate lubrication. Make sure the oil lines are serviceable and have oil in them. No point buying a new or used turbo only to shell it out.
Rocky Mountain Cummins did the work in Albuquerque given I was not in possession of the right tools. They let us stay in their back lot with hookups for free. Took almost a week between parts ordering and scheduling. Cost was around $2,500 and that included the new valve. The old valve was badly carbon fouled and I was told excessive idling is the problem. Now we idle for less than 5 minutes when at a stop, or we hit the cruise control button to kick the RPMs up above 1,200.
Best of luck!
__________________
Dave, Toni, Holly, Izzi, Lilly, Nutmeg, & Ginger
2007 Winnebago Journey SE: Freightliner XC-S, Cummins ISB 300, Allison 2500
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05-30-2013, 05:15 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 680
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You might look at a BANKS TURBO KIT for your Cummins engine. The cost is less than what you posted and Banks has detailed directions to replace and upgrade the Turbo.
EBAY has good prices for the kits.
Regards,
JB
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05-30-2013, 05:18 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Foretravel Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 511
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Take the Cummins engine number and CPL number to your Cummins shop, they can very simply get any part you want. Then you can do the work.
Good luck
Dave M
__________________
Foretravel, 2001, 36' ISM500 "Hot Rod"
F150 w/EZ Golf Cart or
CanAM 800 Max Limited ATV
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06-05-2013, 11:52 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: lancaster CA
Posts: 614
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go to mopar1973man.com
That forum has all the info you need
__________________
2001 dodge 2500 auto, with billet Mojave Green torque converter with 2nd gear lockup mod, raptor 100 fuel transfer pump and gauges. RV275 injectors
94 Alpenlite 27sl with many mods. Master mechanic over 55 years
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06-10-2013, 09:14 AM
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#6
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6
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I had the same problem on my 2003 38n. Cummins said 6K to replace the turbo and EGR. I pulled the turbo and had a turbo shop rebuild it ( 200$). Just put the turbo back in. Runs better but still intermittent black smoke. Will clean the EGR next. Let me know how you make out with your fix
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06-12-2013, 07:27 PM
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#7
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 20
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I am dealing with this now, I was told i needed a turbo because of a stuck actuator. I took the turbo off and everything seems free and moving, i have a guy that opened up the turbo and he sad it was pretty gummed up so he cleaned it up and says i need to replace the actuator assembly. I am ahving a real hard time finding part #s to match anything from anywhere, i was told the engine ser# pulled a turbo # that is different from the turbo that i took off of the engine. I was given a price for my turbo of $3200 from cummins. I am so lost and dont know where to go from here! I have a 2005 Coachmen Cross Country with 32,000 miles I was also told the turbo i have is shown for 4 cylinder engines, this is a 5.9 cummins which is a 6 cylinder.
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06-12-2013, 08:11 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,886
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I don't know if the EGR stuck open would impact boost, but that sounds likely.
If the actuator is stuck, there is no way to diagnose a turbo issue, short of seeing too much free play.
Lots of places rebuild turbos. You need a good dynamic balancer to do it correctly. There should be some up/down free play (not much) but almost no in/out free play.
If you disassemble the orientation of the turbo impellers, you're done. They're balanced in an orientation and do not re-assemble. They need to go to a shop to be correctly setup again.
No reason to buy a "new turbo" at retail prices... Have someone look at the turbo that does turbos - they can measure and tell you in about 5 minutes.
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06-12-2013, 08:20 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1000rider
I don't know if the EGR stuck open would impact boost, but that sounds likely.
If the actuator is stuck, there is no way to diagnose a turbo issue, short of seeing too much free play.
Lots of places rebuild turbos. You need a good dynamic balancer to do it correctly. There should be some up/down free play (not much) but almost no in/out free play.
If you disassemble the orientation of the turbo impellers, you're done. They're balanced in an orientation and do not re-assemble. They need to go to a shop to be correctly setup again.
No reason to buy a "new turbo" at retail prices... Have someone look at the turbo that does turbos - they can measure and tell you in about 5 minutes.
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Yes EGR issues can have a great affect on boost.
Even cause a loss of power and bad idle. The EGR issues would be my first repair. Turbos rely on exhaust heat and flow. As long as the turbo bearings are good I would be looking at EGR first. Sounds like this engine has a variable geometry turbo. If it sat for a long time the actuators may be rusted into position. In most cases a turbo removal and careful disassemble (as CB1000 indicated) and cleaning can correct turbo issues.
Ive seen in the light duty realm that mechanics replace turbos for lack of boost. IT does not fix the issue because the turbo is not getting the necessary heat and exhaust flow it needs to build boost.
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06-13-2013, 06:25 AM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6
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VGT EGR etc
according to some cummins gurus A stuck vgt usually causes lots of back pressure or loss of boost and a lot of black smoke, this can cause the EGR / EGT cooler to be stuck as well. I fixed the vgt on mine, still smokes but a lot less, now getting EGR related error codes. I will be investigating it next weekend.
Mattera68 what error codes are you getting. what is the sn of the turbo/ engine
I did a lot of research on this and this is a common problem on the dodges. What crysler recomends is to drill a hole in the turbo and spray special liquid in it to prevent the VGT ring from sticking
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06-13-2013, 07:47 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingace
according to some cummins gurus A stuck vgt usually causes lots of back pressure or loss of boost and a lot of black smoke, this can cause the EGR / EGT cooler to be stuck as well. I fixed the vgt on mine, still smokes but a lot less, now getting EGR related error codes. I will be investigating it next weekend.
Mattera68 what error codes are you getting. what is the sn of the turbo/ engine
I did a lot of research on this and this is a common problem on the dodges. What crysler recomends is to drill a hole in the turbo and spray special liquid in it to prevent the VGT ring from sticking
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The 6.0L in the Ford trucks had sticking VGT issues if the engine was not started at least once a month. Im sure this is the same thing as the turbo is may be made by the same company (garret). Unless cummins makes their own. However, if once the VGT is cleaned, start it and warm it up at least once a month. Even a quick drive around the block. This will break away and rust build up. No holes would be needed in the turbo.
I to have talked with a Dodge tech and he said the same thing about stuck VGT. I believe when I talked to him it was a 6.7 that he was pulling the turbo off of though.
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06-13-2013, 10:10 AM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6
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thats what the guy who rebuilt my turbo recomended. He also said to use the engine break as that will excersize the VGT actuator.
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06-17-2013, 09:49 AM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 24
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Sorry Guys a lot of acronyms flying around here. What's a VGT. This is all great info. Looks like I have a lot more to check then just the Turbo or EGR. Great stuff. Keep it coming!
Thanks!
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06-17-2013, 11:13 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Oakton, Va
Posts: 1,160
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__________________
Jim Walker
N Virginia
2014 Palazzo 33.2
Cummins 6.7 ISB, Allison 2100 6 Speed
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