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10-16-2019, 07:31 AM
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#309
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Mark
Isn't that against the law?
Mark
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so is the Ugly Fix module. which by the way is a horrible snake oil attempt.
as far as laws...you will always have Outlaws. Who writes these laws? our hired representatives. Who pays the big bill in the end of a $30k inframe? How many times are you going to stroke a $30k check to stay within the law??
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10-16-2019, 08:23 AM
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#310
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: CA and TN
Posts: 4,662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card
so is the Ugly Fix module. which by the way is a horrible snake oil attempt.
as far as laws...you will always have Outlaws. Who writes these laws? our hired representatives. Who pays the big bill in the end of a $30k inframe? How many times are you going to stroke a $30k check to stay within the law??
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From what I have gathered from this tread is that the NEW Cummins 600+ hp engines don't have this problem, right?
If I had that engine and it went south, I would put in a brand new Cummins engine and be done with it.
How much is a whole new engine? It can't be much more than $30,000?
Safe travels,
Mark
__________________
2021.5 Pleasure Way Plateau FL Class-B Sprinter (bought May '21)
2018 Mini Cooper Hardtop Coupe, 2 dr. 6-speed manual (toad)
(Sold)2015 Prevost Liberty Coach,(Sold)2008 Monaco Dynasty
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10-16-2019, 08:29 AM
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#311
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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The newer 605 Hp ISX's don't seem to have a problem. The problem with putting in a newer engine is getting it certified and any factory warranty. Plus the labor cost could easily double the cost. Can it be done? Sure. Will it work? Sure. Can you afford it? Maybe. But I certainly can't.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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10-16-2019, 08:43 AM
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#312
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: CA and TN
Posts: 4,662
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Thanks for the info Mr. D. You certainly didn't deserve having to fix your engine twice!
There is one plus about a Prevost, the engines can be removed fairly easily (they say). There are owners that will have the engined pulled (mainly Detroit Diesel) and have the top end worked on. I've seen pics of the engine coming straight out of the back.
Safe travels,
Mark
__________________
2021.5 Pleasure Way Plateau FL Class-B Sprinter (bought May '21)
2018 Mini Cooper Hardtop Coupe, 2 dr. 6-speed manual (toad)
(Sold)2015 Prevost Liberty Coach,(Sold)2008 Monaco Dynasty
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10-17-2019, 07:29 AM
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#313
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: San antonio, TX
Posts: 624
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Mark,
You are quite right the engine comes out very easily. The shop in Springfield that put the new shims on our valves had the engine out in no time. They also put in a new rear axle seal, and had the engine back in the coach in a day and a half.
__________________
USAF Retired
2000 Prevost Marathon H3-45
Towing 2019 RAM 1500
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10-17-2019, 09:07 AM
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#314
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Metamora, MI
Posts: 5,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
The newer 605 Hp ISX's don't seem to have a problem. The problem with putting in a newer engine is getting it certified and any factory warranty. Plus the labor cost could easily double the cost. Can it be done? Sure. Will it work? Sure. Can you afford it? Maybe. But I certainly can't.
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and how does one make the determination that the new ISX doesn't have THIS problem? From forum responses?
And how do we know that that new ISX doesn't have it's own host of issues?
And, what percent of owners of either generation have the problem at all?
Just saying that there is VERY little facts available and NO statistics on a forum to make this type of declaration. Unless you have access to Cummins Warranty / Repair order database...you have NO idea.
There is enough information if one seeks it on the Internet to make a problem out of just about any situation. That doesn't mean someone needs to do anything about it. Especially pay tens of thousands of $'s.
If you have one, drive it, enjoy it, maintain it. If Cummins says do this upgrade, do it. They DO have most of the facts. I know...I used to also have them for FCA / Cummins vehicles... IMHO.
__________________
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire Limited 4370 w/ Spartan K2 and Cummins 500hp
ASE Master Certified (a long.....time ago...)
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10-17-2019, 09:28 AM
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#315
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 6,558
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The new Cummins ISX is called the X15. For RV use, they make a 605hp version. I'm not sure they have been around long enough to uncover issues. A used 450hp truck version with low (120k) miles is around $30k. New is over double that.
Installing a new Cummins X15 in an older coach would be cost prohibitive. You would need all the accompanying emission equipment, the ECU, the fuel system, turbo, intercooler, exhaust system, chassis interface wiring, and probably lots more. Even the Allison transmission would need reprogramming.
Again, for an older ISX 650hp engine to be reliable, the EGR system must be addressed.
__________________
97 Monaco Windsor- Sold
07 Monaco Executive McKinley- Sold
04 Monaco Signature Chateau IV
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10-17-2019, 06:22 PM
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#316
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,512
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It would be interesting if someone was using water/methanol injection on the older ISX 650HP and either did or didn't have cylinder 6 intake problems. Ran a water/methanol system on a 500 ISM for 10 years and over 100K miles and the intake system was very clean. It looked like it had been steam cleaned with no carbon on complete intake system. If we had a older ISX 15 at any horse power range would use ugly fix for EGR controler and a Snow water/methanol system. As Vito states it is a EGR problem.
__________________
Tom/Teri 16031 NKK 117995 FMCA
18 London Aire 4531 Spartan K-3 605
97-04 LA 04-18 Essex 2018 London Aire
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10-18-2019, 04:03 AM
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#317
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 5,819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom chelbana
Ran a water/methanol system on a 500 ISM for 10 years and over 100K miles and the intake system was very clean. It looked like it had been steam cleaned with no carbon on complete intake system. .
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How much water/methanol is used (on say a 1,000 mile trip)? How big is the tank. Also where do you buy methanol?
Is that considered a "performance enhancer" or is there another reason to use it?
EDIT: most of my questions are answered here: https://www.xtremediesel.com/snow-pe...jection-system
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10-18-2019, 09:13 AM
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#318
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 856
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More curious as to the effect of water injection causing any issue with DPF and or Urea injection aftertreatment systems.
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10-18-2019, 09:20 AM
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#319
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Metamora, MI
Posts: 5,518
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Tom, Is the methanol / water mix injected upstream or downstream from the turbo? I am sure that answer is on that XDP website...just too lazy to research They are using a very high pressure pump, so conceivable, could be on either end.
Many years ago, had water injection on carburated small block chevy in a Datsun...high compression innards with low ocatane fuel...Should have used an antifreeze solution as it did cause some unplanned roadstops in the winter with freezing. Underhood temps did defrost the system on it's own after a brief stop.
__________________
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire Limited 4370 w/ Spartan K2 and Cummins 500hp
ASE Master Certified (a long.....time ago...)
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10-18-2019, 07:54 PM
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#320
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,512
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First put the Snow Water/Methanol on our 04 Essex with 500 ISM with EGR with no DEF. Put it on with the idea of pulling 6 plus % grades in 5th gear at 55 MPH. Went with a dual injector system after turbo with a large quantity of fluid. Only used on 6 or higher grades and had a switch under pedal so only on at full power. Used -30 degree windshield fluid and used about a 1/2 gallon per minute. Had 11 gallon container which depending on area was a good supply. Had system for about 10 years and over 100K miles. Picked up 5 mph on grades but with that high use one should have a EGT gauge because there is a increase in EGT when used for a minute or longer. Used 1300 degrees as the point to let off for a period of time on long grades.
Didn't find out about cleaning intake system till maybe 2 years after using it when I pulled a couple sensors from intake and you could see how clean they were especially on the side were injection was coming in. What I would do today is only use water and that could come from fresh water tank and 1 injector with maybe a gallon per 2 or 3 miles to keep intake clean. Only use at full pedal and with this you wouldn't need EGT gauge and would be enough to keep intake clean.
__________________
Tom/Teri 16031 NKK 117995 FMCA
18 London Aire 4531 Spartan K-3 605
97-04 LA 04-18 Essex 2018 London Aire
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10-29-2019, 08:44 PM
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#321
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,655
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Mr. D, I don't know if this thread contains anything useful to you, but it is about OTR truckers having problems with the ISX motor. https://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...oolant.232429/
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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02-14-2020, 03:52 PM
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#322
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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10,000 mile report
It's been just short of one year and now at 10,000 miles since the last (3rd) rebuild. New head, valves, main bearings, thrust bearings, fuel pump, liners and pistons. Runs like a champ with no hiccups at all. Fuel mileage is about the same, no oil added since rebuilt. Some coolant loss unrelated to the rebuild. Now if Cummins would reimburse me the $53,000 I've spent doing their R&D testing for them!!
BTW: Cummins is helping with some ISX 650 repairs but requiring a non-disclosure to be signed which is why this isn't well known. Fortunately they never asked me to sign one.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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