Muffler delete

[WILDEBILL308]

Originally Posted by mackwrench

1st off , I'm cool with you or anybody else tearing the muffler off and straight piping it, but your probably not going to notice some big seat of the pants HP increase, unless your muffler was plugged/rusted shut.......just sounds cooler,

Your 2003 engine will run just fine w/o a muffler, which BTW has very little back pressure, you probably can look straight though it.....but current engines will derate. DPF, DEF, regen etc.....is now a fact of life. Have you personally looked under a unit at the current exhaust system? It's a nightmare, a very $$$ one.

Yes you can go the EGR/DEF/Chip/Programmer etc...route, the whatever
"legal for off-road use only", but just like the automotive diesel pick up is now, you'll not be able to resale one though a dealer w/out all emissions intact and no CEL/MIL light on.

tier IV emissions are a completely different animal and not always in a good way money verses maintenance wise....somehow the feds now have mandated engines that the air coming out the exhaust is cleaner than the air that went in!

Once again I fully understand what you are saying. It does not change the fact that engins are not designed to have back preshure nor is it required for them to run, it is a result of the exhaust and emission equipment.
Bill

[mackwrench]

Bill..... while I think I understand your point, modern current technology engines are in fact designed to "operate more efficient" with the amount of exhaust back pressure the emissions system causes. This requires different pistons/combustion chambers, VGT turbos use sensors that detect exhaust pressure before and after turbo, differential pressure sensors at EGR valve.... hopefully your catching on, drops or increase in exhaust back pressure causes these engines to have performance issues.

Will it run? Yes
Is exhaust/emissions required? Yes
Are tier 4 engines specifically designed to have a set amount of exhaust pressure? Yes, and it's a combination of specific parts, not just exhaust

Was it my idea to have all these electronic emission controls? Or do I enjoy them?....No, but I've had to embrace them, learn about them and diagnose / repair them (see $$$)
Todd

[Piker]

Depending on where you live, you may not need emissions equipment or a muffler on an engine of the OP's vintage. Where I live, the inspection garage said they can easily pass my year of diesel rv or truck without a muffler and still be totally legal.

There are no emissions tests where I live. Likewise, I think there are places where old vehicles that never had emissions equipment still have to pass the test or you can't license them (CA?)... but not sure.

Personally, I cheat... I left the muffler housing intact, but knocked out all the guts. The muffler had some sort of catalytic element integrated right into it... extremely restrictive. It looks stock from underneath but runs and sounds much better. It's a little quieter than a straight pipe.

Straight piping the exhaust alone will not add a ton of hp, but it will add a little... and it will drop EGT enough to allow you to add considerable hp by adding more fuel and boost. The great news is, you can add hp on these engines without sacrificing efficiency (mpg)... if you do this, however, you will likely sacrifice emissions...

The 12 valve does not care about back pressure... it's a farm tractor engine... which, personally, I think is just cool.

-cheers

[BRex45]

I might give straight piped motorhomes a break on the freeway, maybe.
I do not like to hear them rumble and roar through the campsite area and beyond for a mile though. Or by my house.
Kinda like the wannabe, look at me, I have playing cards clothes pinned onto my spokes, juvenile biker mentality.

[WILDEBILL308]

Originally Posted by mackwrench

Bill..... while I think I understand your point, modern current technology engines are in fact designed to "operate more efficient" with the amount of exhaust back pressure the emissions system causes. This requires different pistons/combustion chambers, VGT turbos use sensors that detect exhaust pressure before and after turbo, differential pressure sensors at EGR valve.... hopefully your catching on, drops or increase in exhaust back pressure causes these engines to have performance issues.

Will it run? Yes
Is exhaust/emissions required? Yes
Are tier 4 engines specifically designed to have a set amount of exhaust pressure? Yes, and it's a combination of specific parts, not just exhaust

Was it my idea to have all these electronic emission controls? Or do I enjoy them?....No, but I've had to embrace them, learn about them and diagnose / repair them (see $$$)
Todd

Todd, You are the one who is not catching on. Perhaps you are deliberately misconstruing what I said maybe you just don't know. Read this carefully. There is NO engine that requires back preshure to run. All back preshure comes from things added after the exhaust port of the cylinder.
Do I think engineers try to compensate for the backpressure caused by these emission devices, yes they do. The engine runs in spite of the back preshure not because of it.

Bill

[Wroughtnharv]

Originally Posted by BRex45

I might give straight piped motorhomes a break on the freeway, maybe.
I do not like to hear them rumble and roar through the campsite area and beyond for a mile though. Or by my house.
Kinda like the wannabe, look at me, I have playing cards clothes pinned onto my spokes, juvenile biker mentality.

When I was at the Cummins dealer and we looked at the available mufflers and resonators etc it came down to not what I would like but how the best thing about me would feel if we were loud in the campgrounds. Keep in mind I'm the guy that had a welding rig on 69 C30 that would light up 7:50 16 duals and make a ton of noise doing it. I once jerked a telco line truck out of some mud with it and one of the linemen came running up through the tire smoke to say they were clear and I was dragging the truck with the brakes locked up on the pavement. He claimed it sounded like we were at the drag strip.

So I ordered some clamps and went back to the coach and pulled the old muffler for a closer inspection. As you can see the inside of the muffler looks pretty good, Iphone fit right in the inlet opening. But the real issue is the flange for the tubing come from turbo is basically wore thin to gone.

The muffler is clamped down tight on the welding table with a five inch piece of 3" 16 gauge alumanized muffler pipe fitted up where the old inlet flange was located. I had to go get some materials for the welder and tomorrow afternoon I will tig it up using silicon bronze rod.

Jane will be kewel kind of quiet. And most important of all, best thing about me will not be embarrassed when we idle out of a campground early in the morning.

[Piker]

Originally Posted by BRex45

I might give straight piped motorhomes a break on the freeway, maybe.
I do not like to hear them rumble and roar through the campsite area and beyond for a mile though. Or by my house.
Kinda like the wannabe, look at me, I have playing cards clothes pinned onto my spokes, juvenile biker mentality.

I loved having playing cards in my spokes... Wasn't cause I cared $.02 whether anyone looked at me or not... I just enjoyed the sound and cause it added to the fun. It's the same with the motorhome. Juvenile? Ya maybe... I'll concede to that.

I personally try to refrain from drawing attention to myself in the campgrounds... because of the way our muffler is hollowed out, and technically not truly straight piped, you almost can't really tell the difference at idle. I have heard some dodge cummins trucks with straight pipes... (lots of juveniles around here ) and they can be pretty loud. I tend to prefer the deeper sound of something with a resonator on it... but I still like the sound. It's just the motorhead in me... I can't help it. How can you judge someone for the way they were born?

Cheers

[mackwrench]

Originally Posted by WILDEBILL308

Todd, You are the one who is not catching on. Perhaps you are deliberately misconstruing what I said maybe you just don't know. Read this carefully. There is NO engine that requires back preshure to run. All back preshure comes from things added after the exhaust port of the cylinder.
Do I think engineers try to compensate for the backpressure caused by these emission devices, yes they do. The engine runs in spite of the back preshure not because of it.

Bill

Ok, I read your post very s l o w l y.....ok your correct, a engine does no one exhaust back pressure to run. Feel better?

I totally got what you ment, I was just trying to help get your head around the current engine configuration that will not run (see derate) without a set amount of exhaust pressure.
Old school is out.

Sorry to the OP for your thread getting jacked, enjoy your straight pipe.

[Piker]

Originally Posted by mackwrench

Old school is out.

Hey now... For some of us... The only school they will let us into is the old one.

Cheers

[GraySeal65]

I straight piped my 8.3, turbo spooled up faster but it was crazy loud.

I ended putting a Areo muffler on it. It's still a bit louder than I would like but it did lower the EGTs, no real increase in power or MPGs

[mackwrench]

Originally Posted by Piker

Hey now... For some of us... The only school they will let us into is the old one.

Cheers

Lol.... your correct! I'm also still enrolled Ha-Ha,

[NHRA225]

Originally Posted by mackwrench

Lol.... your correct! I'm also still enrolled Ha-Ha,

Nice to see Piker pop in here!
2 (OLD)Schools of thought here on eliminating the Muffler !
1- If mine had a new 8.3 Electronic Engine and Smog system- I'd rethink removing the muffler and get advice from Cummins beforehand .
2- My Engine is old School- 8.3 All Mechanical- no smog system and it wants to Breath, YA its a little louder, Spools up quick and I can hear the Turbo whine at idle. Benefits- 50 to 80 deg of lower EGT's and it makes this Old Guy Feel better hauling a%% down the road.

[mackwrench]

Originally Posted by NHRA225

it makes this Old Guy Feel better hauling a%% down the road.

At the end of the day this is what matters! Thanks NHRA225, as usual I enjoy your post!

Each their own and respect the others gig!

Happy Holidays!

[Wroughtnharv]

Okay guys, check out the Razr on the truck. I worked on that truck bed for six weeks, built from scratch with the client there on site making changes like crazy. My job was to build his dream, did it.

The whole time the old boy kept after me to try out his Razr. I never even sat in it. Then the day of the photo was delivery day and he couldn't drive it on to the truck because his foot was in a boot. So I had to load it up.

Hit the starter, wot (wide open throttle for those not so inclined), one big power slide arc that ended up with the Razr on the truck. He insisted that I turn it around because he was afraid of backing it off, he could back it on, only way to load it going slow, Razr is so butt heavy it can't climb the ramp without front going up. So I pulled it off and reloaded it.

The whole time adopted son, mid fifties, didn't say a word. Then after the client left he asked, "how old do you have to get for that "stuff" to be out of your system?"

I just smiled, haven't got there yet. I'm the guy that had the four on the tree chevy van that loved seeing the gearheads spin their heads a one eighty when I grabbed fourth and them seeing me shift on the column. Yes, you need a separate lever coming up through the floor for reverse, great anti-theft device.

My 69 and 72 C 30 welding trucks had small blocks that would smoke duals, not empty pickups, welding beds. I remember one time downtown Dallas with the 69 and a vette pulled up beside me and screamed out, "[moderator edit] you got in that thing?" Those tall buildings are better than a tunnel when it comes to making loud loudest.

I've raced dirt track cars and desert motorcycles. And there's been few things I've owned that hasn't been loud and or fast. But, best thing about me isn't like that and the coach is about what she wants.