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08-27-2015, 08:17 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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Need Advice About Fuel Filter Change Please
Ok so here's the scenario. Drove yesterday from one rv park to another only about an hour away...did NOT add any fuel to the tank which is at about 1/2 now. When we arrived at the new park...turned the engine off, went in and Registered....10 mins later, came out and started the rig...BUT, running really rough...puffing some extra smoke than normal.
No warning lights on...just a rough idle and some extra smoke.
Putting it into drive I could tell there was something wrong...but creeping at 10 mph did not give me any other indications...other than the rough idle...lack of power on a slight upward driveway to our parking spot.
So, looking at this forum, I noticed many people commenting about fuel filters needing changing etc. Last change done by dealer in Jan about 8K miles ago. I went and purchased 2 new filters and plan on installing them tomorrow.
My questions now are:
1) could this be system related to a mileage setting for maintenance? When I happened to look at my odometer, it shows exactly 36,000 miles and it got me thinking if that could play any role in the symptoms? Could the ECU of had a setting (such as a reminder) to change fuel filters? I can't imagine that being a safe thing...but thought I would ask anyway.
2) other threads debated replace the filters wet or dry. Someone commented that for some Cummins engines like the 5.9...wet was advised and the larger engines dry was advised. I have a Cummins 400 in a 2007 Travel Supreme Envoy - so wet or dry?
2b) Other threads suggested doing one filter...then start engine...then do the 2nd filter and start engine to reduce overall air amounts into the line. So which one first? I see 2 filters looking at me about waist-high once I lift the back engine shield.
Thanks in advance for all who help out!
Dave
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08-27-2015, 08:31 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,391
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It's yours, do what you want. Myself, I would change them one at a time and fill them, being careful to not contaminate the fuel. Some Rocket Scientists will tell you not to prefill them. However, if you ever air lock one you will wish you had filled them. Good luck.
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08-27-2015, 08:38 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,591
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do you have a shutoff valve coming from the tank near the first filter (water separator)? I do and it helps prevent fuel siphoning back to the tank (long run from front tank).
I do fill the first filter, change out, start engine, fill second filter and change out. I am a bit over careful by nature.
Brian
__________________
Towr: 2007 Country Coach Allure 470 - 37 Sunset Bay Cummins 400 ISL, Coach #31563
Toad: 2016 F150 King Ranch - 3.5L EcoBoost 4x4 Supercrew (curb weight 4,775 lbs)
Toad: SOLD 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee (yes, it has a Hemi) (curb weight 4,720 lbs)
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08-27-2015, 08:59 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 99
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Injection pumps are designed to operate only with a NPSH (Net Positive Suction Head) provided by the lift pump. If the filter has air (not fuel) the injector pump can lose NPSH and fail to provide adequate pressure to the injectors, causing very rough running or even a stall, something to definitely avoid (requires venting the injectors). Therefore, recommend filling filters with clean fuel, one at a time, with engine run between. If two filters, reco upstream from engine first. Many techs now recommend fuel filters with each oil change since injector replacement is very expensive compared to filter.
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08-27-2015, 09:23 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 13,138
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I'm a bit curious about your RV.
Make, model, engine, miles, year...things like that.
__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
Criticism is easier than Craftsmanship
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08-27-2015, 10:03 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Warren, Oregon
Posts: 2,559
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I always start the motor first to warm it up turn off the valve to the tank. Then fill the water separator filter open valve start motor then do the same on the next filter and always fill through the outside small holes.
2 stroker
Could the ECU of had a setting (such as a reminder) to change fuel filters?
NO
__________________
2006 Country Coach Inspire 360 40ft Genoa Designer Series, Samsung 197 RR
Cat C9--STEEL & COPPER Bolt Together Radiator w/ updated rubber mounting
SilverLeaf 330 Magnum 2812 PSW 2011 Ford Edge Sport-Air Force One
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08-28-2015, 10:24 AM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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Hi dhschultz39 - if I cannot find or have a fuel line shut off...should I pinch the lines with some channel locks or anything to reduce any air/fuel back flow?
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08-28-2015, 11:07 AM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 27,671
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The 36,000 mile odometer reading is just coincidence. There is no automatic reminder or anything like that.
I don't prefill the filter for my Cummins ISL 400 - I just let the electric lift pump do its thing (cycle the key multiple times).
Nothing wrong with prefilling as long as you do it right, i.e. put in scrupulously clean fuel. f you put the fuel in the small holes (not the big center one), it passes through the filter before going to the injector pump. If you put it in the big center hole, that's the output side and no filtering happens.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is West Palm Beach, FL
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08-28-2015, 11:47 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Yuma Arizona USA
Posts: 2,996
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First time I changed filters I pre filled then I read how Cummins says change dry. Spent about two hours trying to get it started. Finally had to remove the return line from the top of the tank and plug it to force fuel through the injectors before it would start. Never Again!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Brian, Loretta & Lucy (Golden Retriever)
2008 HR Endeavor 40 PDQ , ISL 400
2010 Dodge Ram 1500 Toad
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08-28-2015, 12:28 PM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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Brian...what engine do you have? On some of the Cummins treads I read about this issue it was commented that the 5. versions said wet...and the ISL 8. said dry...so not positive. Most everyone is stating wet filling thru the little holes around the edge.
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08-28-2015, 11:32 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 99
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Fuel filter change
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusefull
Hi dhschultz39 - if I cannot find or have a fuel line shut off...should I pinch the lines with some channel locks or anything to reduce any air/fuel back flow?
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My ISL Service Manual omits comment about having to block the fuel line to prevent siphoning or draining the fuel tank. As a matter of standard shop practice I plug the fuel line to prevent any chance of such occurrence. Your specific installation will dictate the easiest way to accomplish this practice.
Couple other items from the Service Manual - "It will be necessary to fill the 10 micron water stripping fuel filter with fuel."
"Do not fill the 5 micron fuel filter with fuel before installation; instead, prime the fuel system using the fuel lift pump."
"Cycle the keyswitch and allow the lift pump to operate for 30 seconds. Then turn the keyswitch OFF and back ON again, allowing the lift pump to operate again."
Hope this helps with some of the questions.
"Allow the lift pump to operate for three or four 30-second cycles before attempting to start the engine."
Under Finishing Steps, the SM states, "Cycle the lift pump several times by keying OFF, waiting 10 seconds, and keying ON again. Once the engine is started, slowly increase the engine speed while air is purged from the fuel plumbing."
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08-29-2015, 08:24 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusefull
Brian...what engine do you have? On some of the Cummins treads I read about this issue it was commented that the 5. versions said wet...and the ISL 8. said dry...so not positive. Most everyone is stating wet filling thru the little holes around the edge.
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Cummins ISL 400, late 2006 production - pre 2007 EPA emissions requirements (no DPF).
Brian
__________________
Towr: 2007 Country Coach Allure 470 - 37 Sunset Bay Cummins 400 ISL, Coach #31563
Toad: 2016 F150 King Ranch - 3.5L EcoBoost 4x4 Supercrew (curb weight 4,775 lbs)
Toad: SOLD 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee (yes, it has a Hemi) (curb weight 4,720 lbs)
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08-29-2015, 10:19 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Yuma Arizona USA
Posts: 2,996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusefull
Brian...what engine do you have? On some of the Cummins treads I read about this issue it was commented that the 5. versions said wet...and the ISL 8. said dry...so not positive. Most everyone is stating wet filling thru the little holes around the edge.
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Mine is actually built in 2007 and is an ISL 400 8.9. Everything I read says this engine can have the filters changed dry by just cycling the on/off key. I only did this once and the problems it caused me were just not worth it. I personally will never change another filter without pre-filling. Others may have better luck, then again who knows.
__________________
Brian, Loretta & Lucy (Golden Retriever)
2008 HR Endeavor 40 PDQ , ISL 400
2010 Dodge Ram 1500 Toad
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09-01-2015, 06:20 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 383
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Another question, if you don't mind. I just changed both fuel filters on my ISL 450, 2014. The water separator filter is fine, but for some reason I can't get the second filter to seal. I have R&R it twice, checked both rubber seals, both looked good,tightened it as tight as I can and still have a very slight leak. Any ideas or tips or something I may be missing? Thanks for any and all help.
Dave
__________________
2015 Aspire 44B
ECOA Member
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