Need Some Help With Cummins Starter

[cb5300]

I've run into a problem with my Signature, for some reason everytime you try to start the engine it blows the fuse that handles the starter circuit (30A) the only thing on this circuit is the starter. A new starter was installed, but it's still blowing the fuse when you try to crank the motor. It's now pulling 104A across the circuit with the new starter. Jeff at Cummins said that it's pulling more amps with the new starter than with the old.

You can pull the wire off of the starter and turn the key and the fuse doesn't blow, however the moment the starter is put back on line and you turn the key the fuse will pop.

I'm just wondering if the new starter might be bad also since it's pulling more amps than the old one.... Ok guys what are your thoughts...suggestion?

[Flagelpater]

I am not an expert, but until they step in I have a couple of thoughts.

The fuse should not be seeing the load of the starter. 30 Amp Fuse can not hold the starter draw and to just close the relay it should only need a small current draw.
Check what else is drawing current through that same fuse.

Check the old starter with jumper cables and another battery. Hold it dowm firmly to control the torque. I would have someone stand on it with a heavy foot. See if it rotates normal. This may help you decide if it was okay.

Hopefully an expert will chime in soon!

[BigSkyBob]

Sounds almost like a shorted starter relay. The fuse is in the relay circuit only and has no bearing on the amperage the starter will draw while cranking the engine.

[EngineerMike]

30A definitely isn't the starter current circuit. And 104A isn't the starter draw either. This could be either a circuit to operate a relay (that would carry maybe 400A, 500A?) for the starter current, or it could be another starter related circuit like the grid heater(s) to heat intake air when it is seriously cold. If it is Jeff at Cummins telling you the starter operates within a 30A circuit or that the starter draws 104A, you either need a new Jeff, or a new Cummins before the problem will be identified.
I'm with Bob, maybe a shorted starter relay in which case the 30A fuse is doing its job and telling you something is wrong & needs replacing, or maybe a shorted grid heater (tho I've never heard of that, which doesn't mean it is impossible). If you install a properly working Jeff, s/he should be able to trace the wiring & find out what is on the fused circuit and come up with some better direction.

[Sixpack98]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSkyBob Sounds almost like a shorted starter relay. The fuse is in the relay circuit only and has no bearing on the amperage the starter will draw while cranking the engine.

This sounds like the most likely cause of the fuse blowing. 30A is way too little for the starter circuit. Starter circuit is more like several hundred amps.

[sknight]

That's the starter solenoid fuse, 30A would be correct for one of those, and the problem is probably the new starter didn't have a new solenoid on it. Reasonably common. You swap the solenoid off the old and onto the new.

The fact that you can disconnect it at the starter and not blow the fuse tells me it's in the solenoid itself since that 30A fuse only closes the solenoid.

[cb5300]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sknight That's the starter solenoid fuse, 30A would be correct for one of those, and the problem is probably the new starter didn't have a new solenoid on it. Reasonably common. You swap the solenoid off the old and onto the new. The fact that you can disconnect it at the starter and not blow the fuse tells me it's in the solenoid itself since that 30A fuse only closes the solenoid.

You are close, on my set up (I'm assuming on all ISX engines used by Monaco) there is also suppose to be a "slave solenoid" on the engine. Well, some how it was left off of my engine. It seems that the starter and solenoid are right on the "ragged edge" and may work for awhile, mine went for 13000 miles, but eventually went out. Cummins isn't wanting to repair this under warranty because they are calling it an upgrade over what is stock on the ISX engine. I'm claiming that if this upgrade was what Monaco and Cummins agreed to and Cummins some how left it off of my engine then it is indeed a Cummins problem. Monaco claims that they do not add or take away anything from the engines and that Cummins handles that end of everything....I swear, only I could fall into something like this . It proves once again that if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

[sknight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb5300 You are close, on my set up (I'm assuming on all ISX engines used by Monaco) there is also suppose to be a "slave solenoid" on the engine. Well, some how it was left off of my engine. It seems that the starter and solenoid are right on the "ragged edge" and may work for awhile, mine went for 13000 miles, but eventually went out. Cummins isn't wanting to repair this under warranty because they are calling it an upgrade over what is stock on the ISX engine. I'm claiming that if this upgrade was what Monaco and Cummins agreed to and Cummins some how left it off of my engine then it is indeed a Cummins problem. Monaco claims that they do not add or take away anything from the engines and that Cummins handles that end of everything....I swear, only I could fall into something like this . It proves once again that if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

Ya gotta love it, simply because you can't hate it enough.

Any idea what it would cost to just have a slave solenoid installed?

[cb5300]

I'm guessing parts and labor around $400.00 to $500.00, and that's on top of the $552.00 that the Cummins shop in Ohio stuck me for. I'm hoping that since Cummins added the part to it in the first place that they will see it my way and cover it under their warranty. If they do I'm going to go after the Cummins shop in Ohio for my $552.00....Of course the way my luck runs, I'm just .

[cb5300]

Good News!!! Cummins covered everything (on the starter) under warranty.. Now the lost power issue cost me $289.00 (dirty filter) but the starter issue is corrected and now I'm going after the Cummins shop in OH. (Cummins Bridgeway) I'm asking for a refund of the $552.00 that they charged me for their service call.

What really frost my **** is the charge for supplies when the tech used MY fuses. It seemed that the tech didn't have any 30 amp fuses on the truck....sheees, charged me $15.31 for my own fuses. . Also charged me mileage from Cincinnati to Dayton (which I can understand) and back to Cincinnati, except I found out that the tech was already in Dayton at another call, and when he left me he was going to another call in the area. Something just doesn't seem right about this. Charge me from where you were when you started to me, and to where you are going if going to another call in the area when you finish with me, but to charge everyone mileage from your shop when you weren't there to begin with just seems wrong..

I sent a letter to the OH shop asking for a refund since it should have been a warranty claim to being with, let's see just how far this gets. I've already got a letter ready to go to the BBB in that area, and a letter to Cummins HQ if Bridgeway takes a hard line here.

[Gary RVRoamer]

Many shops have a standard charge for "shop supplies" whether they actually used any or not. They collect a little from everybody, e.g. 5% of the repair total, and spread the cost that way, rather than trying to bill you for use of one shop towel or half a tube of sealer. I'm not defending it, just telling how it is.

[cb5300]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV Roamer [Gary] Many shops have a standard charge for "shop supplies" whether they actually used any or not. They collect a little from everybody, e.g. 5% of the repair total, and spread the cost that way, rather than trying to bill you for use of one shop towel or half a tube of sealer. I'm not defending it, just telling how it is.

I understand "how it is", but at $101.00/hr plus mileage plus fuel charge plus drive time, it's still robbery....

[cb5300]

Well the battle has begun with Cummins Bridgeway in West Chester, OH. After faxing the paperwork to them twice and calling their shop several times, I finally get some what of an answer. Since they didn't fix it, Cummins won't pay them. I told Mike (the Bridgeway guy) that it's not my fault that they didn't fix it. That if their tech had taken looked a little further he would have found the issue. Instead he just wanted to keep replacing fuses instead of trying to figure out why the fuse kept blowing. Anyway I told Mike I wasn't going to eat $552.24, that he needed to understand that I appreciated what ever he could do on his end and that I would do what I had to do on my end. Mike then wanted to know what I was willing to pay, I told him that I feel very strongly that he needs to file the paperwork with Cummins.

This should get interesting....The next step will be to file a complaint with Cummins' main office (plus contact my CC to reverse the charges) at least this way I hope to at least to get Bridgeways attention.

[EngineerMike]

Cummins argument might center on that "also suppose to be a "slave solenoid" on the engine. Well, some how it was left off of my engine." If that config was the coach mfgr's responsibility then Cummins isn't at fault; it that was a Cummins engine build oversight, then it is their fault. Usually the engines come on a pallet fairly stripped down, and mfgr's try to get cheaper add-on parts than Cummins would support. Do you have any idea where the slave solenoid works into the who-shoulda-done-what-to-your-coach-when order of events?