Oil analysis

[johnnyringo]

A friend of mine decided to have his oil analyzed. The report stated "high copper content..retest after next oil change".

I'm not familiar with the "copper content" statement. Bearing material is all I can think of. Any ideas or comments?

[ottffss]

Copper is the bearings BUT history is the key to oil analysis. (Except things like high coolant and fuel levels which are immediate issues to be addressed from a single oil analysis).

Oil analysis history AND vehicle history. You can't take a single point oil analysis and really expect to do much with it... First analysis is mostly a baseline.

Critical questions for now are - How many miles? How long on the oil before change? Was filter changed? Any engine work (even EGR)?

Critical questions for next 2-3 oil analysis is watching trends - are the number changing? Has vehicle use changed? Has oil changes changed?

[debaets]

I have been using Blackstone for my oil sampling test. If an item is high or low they will give a written explanation. Once they even called me because of high levels of coolant. Turned out the intake manifold gasket was leaking, it could have caused serious problems if not corrected

[ottffss]

More ditto/kudos to Blackstone.

They write up the detail on why/causes for each "issue" in the analysis, keep your history and USE it for each subsequent analysis, compare your engine type to the general population for that engine, and for immediate issues (like coolant/fuel levels) you'll get a phone call...

[dons2346]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottffss Copper is the bearings BUT history is the key to oil analysis. (Except things like high coolant and fuel levels which are immediate issues to be addressed from a single oil analysis). Oil analysis history AND vehicle history. You can't take a single point oil analysis and really expect to do much with it... First analysis is mostly a baseline. Critical questions for now are - How many miles? How long on the oil before change? Was filter changed? Any engine work (even EGR)? Critical questions for next 2-3 oil analysis is watching trends - are the number changing? Has vehicle use changed? Has oil changes changed?

Have to agree here. A one shot analysis is worthless. You need to have several to establish a baseline and go from there.

[Perry White]

Blackstone does all mine and I was getting an above Aluminum content. Found out the storage manager was starting all the RV's and letting them idle for hours on end. Content fine after straightened out the problem. Finally found out where 1/4 tank of fuel was going. (down the cylinders) Buy a box of ten from Blackstone pre-paid is the best deal. I even send a sample of my fan box fluid, hyd fluid and trans. Let the warranty companys fight with them.

[joerobb]

Have cummins 2009 Discovery K, must have had a washer from factory some where in the air intake system. It go in the turbo chewed the vanes up, they replaced turbo this is the 3rd one. Now I have 90 ppm iron in my oil, 60 is the base line, not pretty.

[lonestarace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyringo I'm not familiar with the "copper content" statement. Bearing material is all I can think of. Any ideas or comments?

It could also be oil cooler core tubing

[sc3283]

what oil filter brand and how old was the engine oil?

[spike45]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joerobb Have cummins 2009 Discovery K, must have had a washer from factory some where in the air intake system. It go in the turbo chewed the vanes up, they replaced turbo this is the 3rd one. Now I have 90 ppm iron in my oil, 60 is the base line, not pretty.

Don't get your undies in a twist, Joe. 90 PPM iron is not indicative of pending engine failure. To state that 60 PPM is the norm or baseline is not accurate either. I know of larger ISX that run lower iron numbers and some around there and some more. It varies. Continue sampling looking for a rapid increase in iron content. If you do a series of samples that have the iron in the vicinity of 90 or some other number that is relatively steady you are just seeing the 'wear personality' of your engine.

Single samples do not really tell you much useful information but a series of them can speak volumes.

[oldbeek]

Copper; I did a study of different oils when I ran a large fleet. Some oils will scrub copper from the oil coolers, more than others. A one time oil sample could be scary. If you recently changed to a higher detergent oil, you may see copper. IF this is the reason for the high copper, susequent oil samples and using the same brand oil, you will see copper go down once the oil cooler is cleaned.

[Gary RVRoamer]

One of the advantages of using a big lab like Blackstone is that you get the benefit of their "universal averages", even though you do not have along history of your own for your engine or tranny. Blackstone does thousands of analysis every year, so when they tell you something is in or out of the Norm, they have a good basis for that. That doesn't mean any particular value is "normal" for your engine, but it gives you a perspective for similar engines/trannies. Once you build up a history for your own engine, that usually gives a better indication than the universal averages, but you have to start somewhere.

If you start analysis with an engine or tranny that is already well along in life, you may be starting out with a condition that is already worthy of concern. The universal averages help you spot that situation, but do not automatically imply the situation is dangerous.

It is informative to read the FAQ on the Blackstone site. Scroll down to the Faqs on metals content and the universal averages.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq.php

[RBK394]

Is there a good rule of thumb as to how often to have oil analysis? At oil and filter change time?

[lonestarace]

Annually or at the mileage the engine mfr recommmends, whichever comes first.
The results we tell you if it the oil needs changing.
Some lesser quality oil filters should be changed annually reguardless of the analysis results.