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Old 05-09-2016, 09:28 AM   #15
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ColoradoHRE, We too have had to replace the CAPS injector pump twice. The root cause for us was a restricted vent tube at the fuel tank. It seems that when Freightliner delivers the chassis to the coach manufacturer the vent tube is coiled on top of the fuel tank. Ours vent tube was never relocated. Mud Dobbers had built a nest in the vent tube. Freightliner of Gaffney repaired this venting problem in 45 minutes. Each repair facility just followed the code errors in the ECM. Once the venting issue was fixed, I had Rocky Mountain Cummins in Denver replace the CAPS and lift pump. No issues since related to fuel delivery.
Just food for thought.....
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Old 05-10-2016, 05:42 PM   #16
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ColoradoHRE, We too have had to replace the CAPS injector pump twice. The root cause for us was a restricted vent tube at the fuel tank. It seems that when Freightliner delivers the chassis to the coach manufacturer the vent tube is coiled on top of the fuel tank. Ours vent tube was never relocated. Mud Dobbers had built a nest in the vent tube. Freightliner of Gaffney repaired this venting problem in 45 minutes. Each repair facility just followed the code errors in the ECM. Once the venting issue was fixed, I had Rocky Mountain Cummins in Denver replace the CAPS and lift pump. No issues since related to fuel delivery.
Just food for thought.....
Thanks Steve for the description of your tank vent experience! It is good to know what happened to your coach with that kind of obstruction because I had theorized that a vent constriction would really wound the normal performance and apparently it can cause damage to the injection pump but not seriously cause you other crippling performance problems until the pump fails. Did you observe a gain in performance after the vent was properly located and cleared?
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:49 AM   #17
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We did gain fuel economy, closer to 9 mpg. We drive around the 63 - 65 mph range. I think that even with the poor venting the CAPS was doing it's job performance wise it was just severely shortening the life of the system. We've put about 4000 miles since the last CAPS and lift pump change and all is working well.
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:20 AM   #18
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the inline filter is just forward and above the rear axle.I beleive this is put on by the chassis builder so many are nor aware of it

good luck



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Old 05-21-2016, 11:18 AM   #19
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the inline filter is just forward and above the rear axle.I beleive this is put on by the chassis builder so many are nor aware of it

good luck



dave
Thank you dakratdave: I will do another crawl under coach and focus on that area to see if Monaco/HR put an in line filter there!


For those following the thread: Had the engine and generator serviced 5/19 at Cummins Rocky Mountain Denver and had fuel sample pulled and sent to Cummins lab. Expect 2 week turn around on results and I will post what they find.


SteveR161: I cleaned small spider web out of tank vent - do not think it was doing an obstruction. Talked to Smitty (RV leader at Cummins RM Denver)and his model of the tank venting is that there is a check valve mid way to the discharge end from the tank connection and that it lets air pressure out but will not let air in and that venting in is through the two fuel tank caps. So - if that is true, (he is very experienced) I have had the wrong model for getting air into the tank as fuel is consumed to prevent a vacuum in the tank. Anyone have a comment on this?


Summary of where I am so far: Waiting to get fuel test results to see if that may be failure root cause. Mixed descriptions about fuel vent operation and not sure if I can physically confirm what I have because of routing and access problems of the vent line. Need to confirm in-line filter configuration or absence of it but routing may be a real problem to determine that.
Also have conflicting views about additives for lubricity and algae growth but biased towards using them. Owners manual is negative about doing that.
Adding continuous running of lift pump is a no harm thing with the service people that I have talked with.


Nothing is giving a strong " this is the cause of your problem which is an unusual failure frequency of a CAPS system"!!! SO-I do not have a clear supported action to prevent the next failure. Am keeping on pursuing this area with the things mentioned above but not sure anything else can be done if the failure is just happening because of an unreliable high pressure pump design. (not a good answer for us!!)


Thanks to all of you for your inputs.
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Old 05-21-2016, 02:57 PM   #20
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Thank you dakratdave: I will do another crawl under coach and focus on that area to see if Monaco/HR put an in line filter there!


For those following the thread: Had the engine and generator serviced 5/19 at Cummins Rocky Mountain Denver and had fuel sample pulled and sent to Cummins lab. Expect 2 week turn around on results and I will post what they find.


SteveR161: I cleaned small spider web out of tank vent - do not think it was doing an obstruction. Talked to Smitty (RV leader at Cummins RM Denver)and his model of the tank venting is that there is a check valve mid way to the discharge end from the tank connection and that it lets air pressure out but will not let air in and that venting in is through the two fuel tank caps. So - if that is true, (he is very experienced) I have had the wrong model for getting air into the tank as fuel is consumed to prevent a vacuum in the tank. Anyone have a comment on this?


Summary of where I am so far: Waiting to get fuel test results to see if that may be failure root cause. Mixed descriptions about fuel vent operation and not sure if I can physically confirm what I have because of routing and access problems of the vent line. Need to confirm in-line filter configuration or absence of it but routing may be a real problem to determine that.
Also have conflicting views about additives for lubricity and algae growth but biased towards using them. Owners manual is negative about doing that.
Adding continuous running of lift pump is a no harm thing with the service people that I have talked with.


Nothing is giving a strong " this is the cause of your problem which is an unusual failure frequency of a CAPS system"!!! SO-I do not have a clear supported action to prevent the next failure. Am keeping on pursuing this area with the things mentioned above but not sure anything else can be done if the failure is just happening because of an unreliable high pressure pump design. (not a good answer for us!!)


Thanks to all of you for your inputs.
There's no secret on the fuel filters. I don't recall the year your endeavors is, but if it's on the Roadmaster chassis, you will have a primary and secondary fuel filter. In line is probably not the best description. They are very large spin on filters and hard to miss. If you are getting your oil changed at cummins, I would be surprised if they missed them.
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:11 PM   #21
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There should be no more than two fuel filters on your engine. One is the primary and one is the secondary. Both are "in-line" or "in series" with the fuel tank supply lines followed by the lift pump and then the CAPS Fuel System.

Both should be replaced at the same time when you do an oil and filter change. Or whenever you take on a bad tank of fuel.

The primary filter should be a larger micron than your secondary.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:47 AM   #22
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There should be no more than two fuel filters on your engine. One is the primary and one is the secondary. Both are "in-line" or "in series" with the fuel tank supply lines followed by the lift pump and then the CAPS Fuel System.

Both should be replaced at the same time when you do an oil and filter change. Or whenever you take on a bad tank of fuel.

The primary filter should be a larger micron than your secondary.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Thanks to Crah and DR4Film(Richard) for the comments about fuel filters: The coach is a 2002 Endeavor(HR) and is a Roadmaster chassis which apparently is a good chassis design if you need to clean the fuel tank because of the design of the holding mechanism which folds out to lower the tank.
Also - there are the two fuel filters that you mention. The primary is on the driver side of the coach behind the a/c condenser assy and the owners manual calls out a Ryobi filter but the equivalent is Fleetquard FS1242B (10 micron I think)which has a transparent lower section for water drain. The secondary is on the passenger side of the ISC330 and is a Fleetguard FS1022 (2 micron) and has the water sensor connection for the dash readout for water in fuel which I have never had that alarm light up. Both of these filters were changed with the engine servicing a few days ago and they were also changed with the CAPS replacement in march about 1,300 miles back. Previous to that they were changed periodically but around 1&1/2 years. My plan now is to change them every 12 months along with an engine oil and oil filter change as the Cummins RV tech recommended. Our mileage has only been about 3,000 to 4,000 per 12 months. My impression from inspections is that we do not have another in-line filter before the primary and secondary but I will do another physical search in the areas that I can see to ensure that there is not one.


We bought the coach from the first owner in 08 at 21,000 but I was not knowledgeable about the CAPS issue at that time - apparently the 2003 models went to the common rail fuel system which sounds like it is the system of choice and eliminated the CAPS fuel pump. Unfortunately from what I have been told, it is not economically reasonable to convert from the CAPS to common rail so we have the troublesome system that a lot of people have had problems but very few with the magnitude of our 3 failures in about 3 years with only 11,000 or so miles. The parts warranty is 1 year and our failures have exceeded that time frame by several months each time.


So - am trying to see if there is something going on with our system or with the way we service that is causing the fragile pump to fail earlier than what most people experience with it. So far, nothing has really shown up so still looking at issues that people have targeted on this thread. I need to look at the recommended fuel pressure monitoring system to see how that might help us with our failure problem.


Thanks to each of you for contributing thoughts.
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Old 05-22-2016, 11:05 AM   #23
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My 2002 also has the CAPS fuel system and so far has been trouble-free in almost 15 years and over 80,000 clicks.

I had the coach into the Cummins shop in Oregon one year ago to fix a split heater hose and replace the leaking Coolant Shut-off valve. Luckily the service tech was observant and noticed that my lift pump was leaking ever so slightly. It was dripping onto the starter BUT not hitting the ground. He then found multiple error messages on the computer in regards to the CAPS system. He replaced the lift pump and educated me on the fact that the lift pump is critical in supplying fuel to the CAPS system upon startup. If the CAPS system was starved for fuel it would eventually fail so it was important to have a good working lift pump and fuel delivery system.

He also stated that just the CAPS unit is over $2000 and the labor would probably be just as much if not more because of its location and difficulty to work on.

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Old 05-23-2016, 12:42 PM   #24
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My 2002 also has the CAPS fuel system and so far has been trouble-free in almost 15 years and over 80,000 clicks.

I had the coach into the Cummins shop in Oregon one year ago to fix a split heater hose and replace the leaking Coolant Shut-off valve. Luckily the service tech was observant and noticed that my lift pump was leaking ever so slightly. It was dripping onto the starter BUT not hitting the ground. He then found multiple error messages on the computer in regards to the CAPS system. He replaced the lift pump and educated me on the fact that the lift pump is critical in supplying fuel to the CAPS system upon startup. If the CAPS system was starved for fuel it would eventually fail so it was important to have a good working lift pump and fuel delivery system.

He also stated that just the CAPS unit is over $2000 and the labor would probably be just as much if not more because of its location and difficulty to work on.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Richard: I am impressed with your experience with the CAPS system! If you have the time, would you give a summary description of your fuel system maintenance routine you have used with the Windsor?
* Engine description
* Filters and replacement timing or event
* any monitoring gauge or subsystem for fuel pressure/vacuum
* additives used - routine or when - algae, lubricity, gelling prevention, others
* Fueling facilities you normally use


Again - thanks and if you have time, we would appreciate your letting us know how you have cared for your system. Also - have you been the only owner or if other owner - do you know how they serviced the coach fuel system?


Any other advice that you have about having such good luck - we would be interested in knowing.


Have a great day - and thanks for the description of your experience!
Regards, Cullen ColoradoHRE
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:33 AM   #25
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Richard: I am impressed with your experience with the CAPS system! If you have the time, would you give a summary description of your fuel system maintenance routine you have used with the Windsor?

* Engine description
* Filters and replacement timing or event
* any monitoring gauge or subsystem for fuel pressure/vacuum
* additives used - routine or when - algae, lubricity, gelling prevention, others
* Fueling facilities you normally use
Hopefully my CAPS system continues to give me great service!

Engine is a Cummins ISC-350HP - 2002 Monaco Windsor Coach was delivered from the factory to the original purchasers September 2001. I am the second owner and have ALL service records from day one thanks to the conscientious original owners.

I change two fuel filters, oil filter, coolant filter every 10-15,000 miles. I will change fuel filters IF I happen to take on a BAD tank of fuel. That happened to me once while traveling through the Yukon on my way back to the lower 48.

I use a Fleetguard FS1242 for my primary and a Fleetguard FS1022 for my secondary. They are both 10 micron. However when I can't get Fleetguard filters I will purchase filters at NAPA to carry with me. I always carry an extra set of spare fuel filters in case I get a bad tank of fuel once again. When it's time to change out the filters I always use the spare filters FIRST and then carry the new ones with me for the next time.

I use no monitoring devices for fuel pressure or vacuum.

I use a mixture of Biobor-JF and Diesel Kleen which I add to my fuel tank about every 2-3 tank full. I use the maintenance level of Biobor-JF.

Normally when towing my 30 foot trailer I stick to large truck stops for fuel except when traveling to Alaska and back where you don't have many choices.

For the most part I have been using Speedco for my engine service needs. I have used Cummins and some other RV shops but they are generally WAY too expensive for just engine service. Speedco also provides generator fuel and oil filter service too.

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Old 05-24-2016, 09:24 AM   #26
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Hopefully my CAPS system continues to give me great service!

Engine is a Cummins ISC-350HP - 2002 Monaco Windsor Coach was delivered from the factory to the original purchasers September 2001. I am the second owner and have ALL service records from day one thanks to the conscientious original owners.

I change two fuel filters, oil filter, coolant filter every 10-15,000 miles. I will change fuel filters IF I happen to take on a BAD tank of fuel. That happened to me once while traveling through the Yukon on my way back to the lower 48.

I use a Fleetguard FS1242 for my primary and a Fleetguard FS1022 for my secondary. They are both 10 micron. However when I can't get Fleetguard filters I will purchase filters at NAPA to carry with me. I always carry an extra set of spare fuel filters in case I get a bad tank of fuel once again. When it's time to change out the filters I always use the spare filters FIRST and then carry the new ones with me for the next time.

I use no monitoring devices for fuel pressure or vacuum.

I use a mixture of Biobor-JF and Diesel Kleen which I add to my fuel tank about every 2-3 tank full. I use the maintenance level of Biobor-JF.

Normally when towing my 30 foot trailer I stick to large truck stops for fuel except when traveling to Alaska and back where you don't have many choices.

For the most part I have been using Speedco for my engine service needs. I have used Cummins and some other RV shops but they are generally WAY too expensive for just engine service. Speedco also provides generator fuel and oil filter service too.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Richard: Thanks for the overview of your coach care! Good thoughts on the servicing place. Looks like I did not have the right micron size on the secondary fuel filter and a big difference for us is your consistent use of the additives. I do not know what Cummins did to do the 330 to 350 change of horsepower but it probably is unrelated to our failure frequency. Thanks again for your time - helps to know other experiences.
Regards, Cullen
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:34 AM   #27
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My 2002 also has the CAPS fuel system and so far has been trouble-free in almost 15 years and over 80,000 clicks.

I had the coach into the Cummins shop in Oregon one year ago to fix a split heater hose and replace the leaking Coolant Shut-off valve. Luckily the service tech was observant and noticed that my lift pump was leaking ever so slightly. It was dripping onto the starter BUT not hitting the ground. He then found multiple error messages on the computer in regards to the CAPS system. He replaced the lift pump and educated me on the fact that the lift pump is critical in supplying fuel to the CAPS system upon startup. If the CAPS system was starved for fuel it would eventually fail so it was important to have a good working lift pump and fuel delivery system.

He also stated that just the CAPS unit is over $2000 and the labor would probably be just as much if not more because of its location and difficulty to work on.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
I had the same problem as Richard on my ISL. I had read on one of the forums of leaking lift pumps. After inspecting mine I also found I had a slight leak, but not dripping on the ground. I also remembered that sometimes after starting the motor it would die after about thirty seconds. I would restart and everything would be fine. I did a search on irv2 for lift pump replacement and found some people were replacing the stock lift pump with aftermarket pumps that ran all the time. Smitty, a member who posts here, did a lot of research on this. He had Brazel's RV install a Fass fuel pump. He left the old one in for a backup if ever needed. I called Jon at Brazel's and had him send me the same one. I installed it and it's worked great so far.

After this I thought, what else could I do for more insurance. Since a lot of these CAPS problems are from lack of fuel to the pump, a fuel pressure gauge would tell me if the fuel pump was supplying enough pressure to the CAPS. It would show me this at any RPM. It would also show me if the filters are bad (drop in fuel pressure). So I called Jon again and he recommended a ISSPRO fuel gauge. He answered all my questions and sent one right out. It was an easy install except for the wire run.

On my fuel system the lift pump only runs for about thirty seconds to prime the the CAPS. Fluel is drawn from the tank, through the primary filter, into the lift pump, pushed out through the secondary filter into the CAPS. In my opinion that's a long way for the lift pump (during the prime) and CAPS to pull fuel.

Also per Smitty's recommendation I'm using Opti-lube for lubrication of the CAPS.

If you go on the internet you'll find a lot of posts regarding the CAPS and all the problems. I don't what the expense of replacement so I'll try anything to extend the life of the CAPS.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:38 PM   #28
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I had the same problem as Richard on my ISL. I had read on one of the forums of leaking lift pumps. After inspecting mine I also found I had a slight leak, but not dripping on the ground. I also remembered that sometimes after starting the motor it would die after about thirty seconds. I would restart and everything would be fine. I did a search on irv2 for lift pump replacement and found some people were replacing the stock lift pump with aftermarket pumps that ran all the time. Smitty, a member who posts here, did a lot of research on this. He had Brazel's RV install a Fass fuel pump. He left the old one in for a backup if ever needed. I called Jon at Brazel's and had him send me the same one. I installed it and it's worked great so far.

After this I thought, what else could I do for more insurance. Since a lot of these CAPS problems are from lack of fuel to the pump, a fuel pressure gauge would tell me if the fuel pump was supplying enough pressure to the CAPS. It would show me this at any RPM. It would also show me if the filters are bad (drop in fuel pressure). So I called Jon again and he recommended a ISSPRO fuel gauge. He answered all my questions and sent one right out. It was an easy install except for the wire run.

On my fuel system the lift pump only runs for about thirty seconds to prime the the CAPS. Fluel is drawn from the tank, through the primary filter, into the lift pump, pushed out through the secondary filter into the CAPS. In my opinion that's a long way for the lift pump (during the prime) and CAPS to pull fuel.

Also per Smitty's recommendation I'm using Opti-lube for lubrication of the CAPS.

If you go on the internet you'll find a lot of posts regarding the CAPS and all the problems. I don't what the expense of replacement so I'll try anything to extend the life of the CAPS.
Thanks TR4 for the post: Great to have your experience reinforce Smitty's mod and maintenance strategy that he outlined in this thread! It sounds like your 03 Country Coach Cummins ISL400 had not converted to the common rail system yet in 03. My understanding is the HR Endeavor changed over in 03 after 5 years of Caps 98-02. My hope is to change our situation by incorporating some of the mods and maintenance routines shared with us. Good luck with your coach!
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