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Old 05-28-2016, 02:07 PM   #29
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My lift pump leaked the first year we own the MH, so it was replaced. I use Opti-Lube and an algecide, too. Filters are change yearly, I use a Racor S3201T for my secondary and the fs1022 as the primary. The Racor has a little better water rejection spec. They are both 10M.
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Old 05-29-2016, 02:16 PM   #30
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My experience with Caps

I went though an injector pump in my 2002 Dodge diesel(5.9L caps). We replaced the pump and added an auxiliary pump to run constantly. The system now holds 13# at idle dropping to 10# on a hard pull. When we purchased our Dutchstar this is one of the first issues I addressed. I added a Fass fuel system with water separation and 2 micron filtration. The setup is to run whenever the key switch is in the "run" position. This is the same system I used on my 2006 Dodge common Rail. Thousands of miles of trouble service from both trucks with these setups. The pump and filters are located inside the battery bay where the original primary fuel filter was. A gauge added to check fuel pressure, I could have a gauge located in the dash but this works well to check pressure at an idle before the start of each days run. You can also get filters with water drains to check for water in your fuel. Spare filters are easily obtainable. I carry 2 spare for each.
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Old 05-29-2016, 07:58 PM   #31
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Your Dodge had a VP44 pump on it. Those seem to do best with seeing minimum 14 psi fuel pressure. That's the pressure the overflow valve opens so that there is fuel to cool the pump.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:02 AM   #32
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Coma,4fingers,Mntom: Thanks for the experiences that you have shared. This is very useful for the novice diesel vehicle user like myself and keeps building my convictions about what we need to do to our coach to reduce the chances of more caps pump failures. This has opened a whole new understanding for me about the vulnerability of the standard configurations that come out of the production lines of several diesel powered vehicles.
Does anyone know why the manufacturers have not taken action with some of the solutions listed here to mitigate failures? Most of my data comes from this forum thread and from talking with excellent service people working on our 3 failures but it is well known by that group that the CAPS system is a known troublesome system and there are some owners that are fortunate to not have failures but there is a strong group of owners that have taken individual action to prevent failures or have had single to multiple failures with their vehicles.
Our replacement parts have had 1 year warranties but our time between failurs have averaged about 1 and 1/2 years!! So we get to pay for the replacements.
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:07 PM   #33
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ColoradoHRE, I feel for you on the expensive CAPS pump replacement. I've read about the failures here and there. But just like anything, you only hear the bad side. There are thousands and thousands of of the Cummins CAPS engines that were made, and not just Motorhome applications. Think about all the medium duty trucks, buses, and marine engines. I've read numerous problems with the lift pumps leaking which can cause the CAPS pump to fail eventually. I was aware of the lift pump leaking, and it did eventually happen to me this year that I had repaired. My engine still ran fine with the leak, but at the first sign of a leak, I had it replaced immediately. I wonder what would have happened if I didn't notice the leak and kept running it? I would likely have had a CAPS failure. With our Era of engines, it is common to have oil blow by drip on the concrete, so having a slight wet spot under the engine area is probably common with a lot of older generation of diesel owners. I don't have any thoughts on your problem, but you may be having some rather unusual issues not related to the CAPS directly. Just a thought.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:21 AM   #34
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Yes, I hear you, manufacturers can be counted on to take the least dollar route for them. OTOH these engine are designed for applications that make the engine easily visible, like in a truck. In those applications the oil might get changed monthly. So someone is looking at the engine at least that often. Checking the oil means opening the hood which a good operator will give a visual inspections. Most RV owners will carry a problem, like a small leak, for a while too.

To compensate for the engines lack of visibility, I spend time with it. I check the fluid levels in the morning. Each evening I will open the rear access and spend time looking at things, with a side radiator. If you have rear radiator you will have to pull the access panels at least weekly. There is also a lot to be seen from underneath, if you can do that safely. The sooner you notice small problems and resolve them the more money you save.

FWIW, in your case I think there is a restriction some where. It could be a pinched fuel feed and return line, a filter not found, a tank vent restriction or something else. CAPS failures like you've experienced are not normal.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:11 PM   #35
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Keep in mind, that the CAPS era engines were designed for Pre ULSD fuels. Many of the CAPS failures, are result of Lift Pumps leaking and thus partial starvation of fuel. Fuel is both the coolant and lubricant of this precision piece of equipment called CAPS. The damage to the gaskets that worked well for pre ULSD fuels, was unknown until it started to happen. I personally do not hold the engine manufactures responsible for this. So often, especially California, the 'experts' on smog related stuff - really have little care of the ripple effect to the existing install base. I had read a few years back, that the trucking industry had argued and lobbied for the shift to ULSD to be phased. ULSD for the new vehicles designed to run on ULSD. And pre USLD Type 2 diesel also at the pumps for a 10 year period, as by then, a very big percentage of the trucks with engines designed to run on Type 2 - would be off the roadways. They lost that one, and we all pay for it. In that same article (Which about a year ago I searched for again, and could not locate it. Would be great if someone else recalls it or can find it to share!) that the CARB (Calif smog people...) made a slight mistake in their calculations on what ULSD was going to do to help reduce smog. (And gang, not arguing that it has not helped, ULSD is a better fuel for the environment.) It seems that they forgot to work into their calculations the impact of ULSD on MPG. Say 10%, and that therefor 10% more ULSD would need to be burned to generate the same amount of over the road movement of vehicles...

Enough on memory lane. Was CAPS one of Cummins better designs? Well, no. But, as mentioned here, and on other threads too - many of these engined provided long and trouble free service...

Best to all,
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
Keep in mind, that the CAPS era engines were designed for Pre ULSD fuels. Many of the CAPS failures, are result of Lift Pumps leaking and thus partial starvation of fuel. Fuel is both the coolant and lubricant of this precision piece of equipment called CAPS. The damage to the gaskets that worked well for pre ULSD fuels, was unknown until it started to happen. I personally do not hold the engine manufactures responsible for this. So often, especially California, the 'experts' on smog related stuff - really have little care of the ripple effect to the existing install base. I had read a few years back, that the trucking industry had argued and lobbied for the shift to ULSD to be phased. ULSD for the new vehicles designed to run on ULSD. And pre USLD Type 2 diesel also at the pumps for a 10 year period, as by then, a very big percentage of the trucks with engines designed to run on Type 2 - would be off the roadways. They lost that one, and we all pay for it. In that same article (Which about a year ago I searched for again, and could not locate it. Would be great if someone else recalls it or can find it to share!) that the CARB (Calif smog people...) made a slight mistake in their calculations on what ULSD was going to do to help reduce smog. (And gang, not arguing that it has not helped, ULSD is a better fuel for the environment.) It seems that they forgot to work into their calculations the impact of ULSD on MPG. Say 10%, and that therefor 10% more ULSD would need to be burned to generate the same amount of over the road movement of vehicles...

Enough on memory lane. Was CAPS one of Cummins better designs? Well, no. But, as mentioned here, and on other threads too - many of these engined provided long and trouble free service...

Best to all,
Smitty
And thank you Smitty! Your posts on irv2 regarding possible problems with the CAPS fuel systems have done a lot to educate me. I followed your lead and have installed the aftermarket fuel pump. I have also started using Opti-lub for extra lubrication. Like you I researched the CAPS problem and the consensus seems to follow your recommendation. Thanks again for all your helpful posts.
Bill
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:29 AM   #37
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Thanks for the rest of the story Smitty77. As we know, the road to H3ll is paved with good intentions. No one ever seems to be held accountable for the unintended consequences.
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Old 06-03-2016, 01:50 PM   #38
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We had a fitting leaking on our caps pump this year and I thought, omg here we go. I did some online research and found this company that rebuilds them and fixes them. I called and spoke with one of their techs and he was awesome. Our had a fitting leaking and was fixed at a shop in AZ, High Mountain Diesel in Flagstaff, another good guy. Anyway we didn't have a failure but I keep it in my mind. Our lift pump was replaced but damage could still be lurking. This is the company in Iowa for the pumps.

Cummins 8.3L CAPS Fuel Pump - BK Diesel Service
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:55 AM   #39
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As far as getting info on Cummins engine. I've found this IRV2 Cummins Forum to be my single best source of info, especially for trouble shooting. As we bought our coach, moving into the first diesel RV that we've ever had, and only our second diesel too. (We had a power house Diesel Rabbit Pickup truck (Though it is a reach to call it a truck!)

After we bought it, I spent several hours doing search on both ISC and ISL (The 8.3 and 8.9 are very closely related, so good reading on both.). So many veteran ISC/ISL owners on this forum, they've helped me quite a bit.

As with any forum, you get a feel for the posters. Some are ones you know you should pay close attention to. Like Wolfe when it comes to CAT engines. (And yeah, I was targeting an Intrigue with a C12 or early C13 CAT, so had researched them quite a bit too....).

My point of this post, is that it is 'The Collective Sharing of Knowledge.' on this forum that makes it so valuable to us all.

I really appreciate those that come back and do two things:
1) Update on the root cause of a problem
2) Correct a post that they may have made that was wrong, after learning that it was so...

So to us all, salute!!!

Best to all, even CAT and Detroit owners too,
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Old 06-05-2016, 07:01 PM   #40
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"ColoradoHRE".....I know an additive won't solve your issue and I feel your pain with your expenses, more importantly, something that you can't seem to resolve.

You mentioned something early on in your posts about Cummins not recommending additives in your manuals. Many disagree with additive use, but in the last year or so, Cummins has changed their opinion on additives (they want you to use theirs obviously). The primary reason for the change was the quality of diesel fuel. Studies have shown that some of the diesel fuel sold in the US (samples tested throughout the US) is not meeting the Government standards for lubricity.

For this reason, I've been running OptiLube for over five years.

I've owned a diesel now for 12 years, two different ISL's. I've always read about CAPS engines and never really understood what the difference was. I read through all three pages and gained some knowledge. Good luck in getting yours running properly.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:35 PM   #41
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Thanks for the recent postings! They keep adding to the knowledge base.


In addition to this forum thread, we are working with Tim and Garrett at Cummins Coberg, OR and Chris (Service Manager at Cummins Denver) with a 21 page PDF file that they are talking with each other about the 3 repairs documented in that file and trying to identify the strategy to follow to uncover the root cause(s).


Still waiting on the fuel test results but the above effort seems to be pointing to a fuel restriction monitor strategy which hopefully would identify what is happening.


Thanks for the support and information. It is the highest confidence information that we have about the potential cause of our repeat failures of the CAPS fuel pump and hopefully the above group can integrate that information and experiences into deriving the repair strategy that will prevent another CAPS failure.


Will post any new info - Cullen (ColoradoHRE)
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:00 PM   #42
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Hey Cullen
I might as well join the party. Mine just quit running in heavy holiday traffic 11 days ago, while merging left onto I-75 with my Yukon in tow. The 2001 coach has only 45k miles. With a couple of tow charges amounting to $1100, the Cummins bill for a new CAPS pump installed will be $6100. The shaft broke and trying to remove the pump caused other damage, necessitating replacement. The fault codes thrown were 268 for fuel pressure sensor and then 329 for CAPS injection pump - over pumping in system. There was water in my primary filter and they drained some water and crud from the tank. I have been told it is rare for the shaft to break, likely caused by water in the fuel. Like you, I still don't know.

Sure ruined a long-planned trip to Yellowstone with the granddaughters. You know, it really is not about the money...it is about lost opportunities and a growing loss of confidence in motorhome reliability. Unfortunately this is not my first experience being stranded somewhere. Having spent 15 years working for both Cummins and Detroit Diesel distributorships, I know the engine companies can do better...both in product and service support.
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