Revised Cummins air cleaner requirement

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc3283 MrD....if you have a flexable hose going to the inlet side of your air filter...just for kicks....remove it and reset your monitor and see what you have after a road test. I say this due to flex hoses being very restrictive. You have upped the need for air with your banks kit...and with the size of these air filter elements, I find it hard to believe an element that large can be restrictive. The filtering surface area of my filter is far larger than the inlet hose to the air filter area or the inlet holes made in the rear cap of my body. I'd be curious to hear your results

No flex hose, all formed smooth bends or straight alum tubes.

[Mr_D]

As I remember ours is the Farr-Ecolite 9 X 24 and when new it still reads 15 inch on the meter. I reset it each day when I check the oil.
Will be going to Brazils on the 13th and may look at what they have.

[spike45]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D As I remember ours is the Farr-Ecolite 9 X 24 and when new it still reads 15 inch on the meter. I reset it each day when I check the oil. Will be going to Brazils on the 13th and may look at what they have.

Fifteen inches is the upper limit of acceptable for a new filter per Cummins. What that number is telling you is that the filter really is too small for the air flow this engine is capable of. For example, the ISL450 has rated HP air flow of 950 CFM. The ISX 15 liter at 525 HP only pulls 1050 CFM. Naturally those have larger air cleaners. The issue I see in a MH installation is that there is limited space for the correct sized housing. Sure, the engine runs but air filter life will be short whenever initial restriction is this high. Change the air filter at 25" restriction but better to catch it at 20 - 22 inches. That way you minimize the number of air filters you use and reduce the dust ingested each time the filter is changed. The Farr problem stems from high face velocity....too much air per square inch of filter medium. High air flows drive dust through that would have been trapped at lower air flows.

[uffdaracer]

Spike; Congratulations on your retirement! I pulled the plug 3 years ago and wonder how I never found time to work. The key for me is to stay busy. Owning a motor home certainly has contributed to that.
My 2002 40ft. Monaco Windsor on a Roadmaster Chassis is pushed by an ISC 350. I have the Eco-Lite 11X24 throw the whole thing away air filter. I really don't like the "reverse air flow" design it utilizes. I blogged earlier about this, but don't know if you read it. It just seems to me looking at it,because the filter pleats are practically touching each other on the inside, that there is little room left on the filter surface for the dirt particles to accumulate. Maybe I'm missing something? Also, about some of the Eco-Lite filters being undersized, is my application a concern? Is there a non reverse air flow filter available? Thanks Spike. Mike

[J Walker]

Spike
I have a question my 260 HP ISB which uses a FAR 114810 003 air filter. I change it at four year intervals and I wonder if the interval is too short or too long. I usually get very little or no restriction at the four year point. The Cummins specification only states the maximum intake vacuum and specifies no change interval. I have always worried that with little or no vacuum indicated I might have a leak in the filter or intake hoses. Should I just keep my air filter until the vacuum gauge indicates I should change it? Do the air filters deteriorate over time and risk tearing, etc. Thanks

[spike45]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uffdaracer Spike; Congratulations on your retirement! I pulled the plug 3 years ago and wonder how I never found time to work. The key for me is to stay busy. Owning a motor home certainly has contributed to that. My 2002 40ft. Monaco Windsor on a Roadmaster Chassis is pushed by an ISC 350. I have the Eco-Lite 11X24 throw the whole thing away air filter. I really don't like the "reverse air flow" design it utilizes. I blogged earlier about this, but don't know if you read it. It just seems to me looking at it,because the filter pleats are practically touching each other on the inside, that there is little room left on the filter surface for the dirt particles to accumulate. Maybe I'm missing something? Also, about some of the Eco-Lite filters being undersized, is my application a concern? Is there a non reverse air flow filter available? Thanks Spike. Mike

I agree that the Farr product when reverse flowed (inside out) is not as good at filtering as the conventional outside in flow path. That product is marketed with that capability. Filter paper has a 'wire side' which is the side that is considered the downstream (clean) side. With the outside in flow this filter would be more efficient at dust removal. Plus, as you noted, the pleats are so tightly bunched on the inside the air flow is hampered. Most of these are installed as inside out flow because it simplifies the air plumbing for the chassis builder. Dust capacity is reduced because of the inside out flow. The big issue with this type of air cleaner is that it is not intended for high dust environments such as I have seen in my past life as a field engineer. I have knowledge of more than a few fire trucks with dusted ISL engines where the truck was operated in arid climates like Arizona. I really cannot recommend a better air cleaner without knowing what installation space you have. I think replacing it will be a major challenge.

Farr has a larger Eco air cleaner. The Eco SM is 13.5 X 24 inches. From what I can tell, it is not available from Fleetguard or Donaldson. The SM series are medium dust applications. This cannot hurt! Plus the larger size will reduce the 'face velocity', volume of air per square inch. This will result in the filter being able to trap more dust. The inlet and outlet (take your pick) are 7 inch diameter. If at all possible, bring the dirty air in the side and use the end outlet as the clean air. This will likely result in some plumbing changes. Avoid 90 degree elbows as much as you can. On the clean air pipe to the turbo inlet, run the largest diameter you can right up to the turbo inlet then reduce it down at the last. I saw a FarrEcoLite used on a fire truck where the 7 inch outlet (side in this case) was immediately reduced down to 4 inch inlet with a 5 foot long steel tube. It was done that way as the installation was a tilt cab that did not allow for larger pipe. This did severely restrict the inlet air from the long run of small diameter pipe....like trying to breath through a soda straw!

[spike45]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Walker Spike I have a question my 260 HP ISB which uses a FAR 114810 003 air filter. I change it at four year intervals and I wonder if the interval is too short or too long. I usually get very little or no restriction at the four year point. The Cummins specification only states the maximum intake vacuum and specifies no change interval. I have always worried that with little or no vacuum indicated I might have a leak in the filter or intake hoses. Should I just keep my air filter until the vacuum gauge indicates I should change it? Do the air filters deteriorate over time and risk tearing, etc. Thanks

Jim,

I believe most air filter manufacturers will state that the shelf life of their product before installation would be 5 years. With four years of operation, I would change it as it is true that over time the resins that bind the fibers do change. You are quite correct to use the restriction gauge to guide you on service intervals. There is a method for testing the restriction gauge. You can run the engine at idle and cover the inlet to the air cleaner with a board or piece of metal plate. Slide it over the opening slowly. With the inlet almost completely covered you should have introduced enough artificial restriction to trigger the gauge. Remove the plate. Shut the engine off. Look at the gauge, did it go to maximum restriction? Yes, then it is working. No? Then either it is broken or you did not restrict enough of the opening. Assuming it did trigger to maxiumum, press the button on the bottom. It should then move downward. If it does not, the sensing passage may be partially or fully blocked and the return spring not strong enough to return the plunger to its lowest position. Occasionally, the passage does plug. Of course, if it is plugged then it would never sense the restriction. You did state that it stays at or near the original restriction level of 15 inches water. If that is the restriction when the filter is new, that tells me that the air filter is too small for your engine. If the air cleaner is sized correctly, the initial restriction of a new filter would be 6 inches water.

[J Walker]

Spike, Thanks. When I described the restriction of the air filter I meant to say that I usually have no restriction as indicated by the filter minder. Since I may have a filter oversized for my engine or my filter minder is not calibrated right. Your test of covering the inlet to the filter to test the filter minder is interesting. I would turn the engine off and let the vacuum go to ambient slowly and not suddenly remove the plate with the engine running. The sudden rush of air might risk the filter media.

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike45 Fifteen inches is the upper limit of acceptable for a new filter per Cummins. What that number is telling you is that the filter really is too small for the air flow this engine is capable of. For example, the ISL450 has rated HP air flow of 950 CFM. The ISX 15 liter at 525 HP only pulls 1050 CFM. Naturally those have larger air cleaners. The issue I see in a MH installation is that there is limited space for the correct sized housing. Sure, the engine runs but air filter life will be short whenever initial restriction is this high. Change the air filter at 25" restriction but better to catch it at 20 - 22 inches. That way you minimize the number of air filters you use and reduce the dust ingested each time the filter is changed. The Farr problem stems from high face velocity....too much air per square inch of filter medium. High air flows drive dust through that would have been trapped at lower air flows.

Yep, I knew that I needed a higher flow rating, just not sure that it's possible unless I change the filter, hoses and CAC. Not really something I want to spend that much on.

What I have now is the Ecolite 062891001 which has 6" inlet and outlet. It's supposed to flow 1200 CFM @ 8" WG and I'm drawing more than that with a new filter. No easy way to go up to the 062891002 which has 7" inlet and outlets and is larger in diam too. I would have to get new tubing and bends to do it and I know it would probably help a bunch.

Have a printout from AFE on their products but not sure about their filtering/flow capabilities.

[spike45]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D Yep, I knew that I needed a higher flow rating, just not sure that it's possible unless I change the filter, hoses and CAC. Not really something I want to spend that much on. .........

Mr_D,

No need to change the Charge Air Cooler, it is already rated for higher air flow.

gary

[cmpncrsaider]

I thought it was strange, the inside out filter too, and as far any particles falling in where they can get sucked into the intake, on my 350 isc the hole cannister gets changed with the filter its all one peice. Just seemed weired, father-in-law has alot of deisel trucks and heavy equipment and they blow the filters out and put them back in a couple times a year. You can't do it with this backwards filter, to risky!

[Mr_D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike45 Mr_D, No need to change the Charge Air Cooler, it is already rated for higher air flow. gary

OK, Thanks for the info!

What I find strange is that neither AFE nor K&N can give me air flow figures like I can find for the Ecolite ones on the internet. Even contacting them directly resulted in them both saying it wasn't available. AFE said they flowed too much to be tested.

I find it very had to believe that they can advertise that their filters flow more than the stock ones without testing them!

The new K&N Cummins filters are interesting in that they aren't an oiled element and can be cleaned and reused. Need to check on the filtration level though as the older oiled ones let too much fine particulates through for long life with a diesel.

[Barlow46]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike45 I just checked QSOL for ISL and ISC. As of October 24, 2011, the air filter service required is to check the filter restriction gauge at 250 hour intervals. Cummins has not published any document I can find that states to change on a time basis. As I have stated before, changing air filters based on time usually results in more dust entry due to new air filters must accumulate some dust to increase their efficiency. More air cleaners means the dust required to damage the engine gains entry sooner rather than later. The issues with Spartan and some other chassis builders stems from use of the Farr EcoLite disposable housing air filters. The most common version is a 9 X 24 and some 11 X 24. For the high air flow that an ISL is capable of these filters are too small and pass more dust due to the high velocity through the paper medium. I have returned to iRV2 as my retirement became effective this afternoon. Spike45 retired Fleetguard (Cummins) field engineer

Congrats on your retirement!

[howardfry]

Cheap plastic gauge 10 bucks, new air filter 125 bucks, replace turbo or engine pricless. Never trust anything that cost 10 dollars to protect a 25,000 or more investment.