Revised Cummins air cleaner requirement

[RonK]

Just got back from the Spartan training session last Friday. They, meaning Spartan, were just informed by Cummins that the air filter (large canister) change interval has been changed to 1 year from 3 years. To me this reflects a big increase in yearly maintenance costs, list cost $169.54 or discounted cost $112.57. Thoughts were that this change came about due to problems in the firetruck application. We had our 1 year maintenance done while there they did not change out the air filter as they have not gotten the written recommendation from Cummins as yet. When they do receive the written word they will start recommending a change out on a yearly basis to conform with the requirement for warranty purposes.

RonK
2011 American Revolution 42W - (and lovin it)

[RJay]

It seems there was a member here who worked for Cummins who said that a new filter was less effective at filtering dirt than an old filter. Did anyone at either Spartan or Cummins indicate if any changes were made to the filter? They probably don't want to tell us they are being made more cheaply to save Cummins money on parts and increase PM revenue at the same time. Not a bad ploy during a down economy.

[Smitty77]

I think that the earlier threads on Air Filters was spot on. Change when your indicator says it is time to change. Run good quality filters, such as the Fleetguard for Cummins, Donaldson, etc.

The key think I've picked up in researching Air Filters (as I was thinking of going to Redlands for their AFE Filter swap out), is to keep the 'filter to turbo' air flow ducting air tight. Install a good filter, then let it go. Each time you add a new filter, you have more particles working thru to the turbo/engine, until the new filters 'coating' of inbound particles starts assisting the filtration. (I decided that the existing stock filter from CC, provides all the air flow our ISL needs.)

I did not say this as well as was explained in the other thread, so suggest a search and read of that thread...

For us, with less then 5-6K a year now, on none to little dirt areas - we just do not have problem with dirty filters. 18 months now, still sitting at around 4 on the gauge.

Best to all, be safe, have fun,
Smitty

[AFChap]

I changed the air filter on my Cummins ISC at 8 years and 57k miles, just because I decided it was time. The filter minder was not yet up to half, and every year service places told me "it's fine." The original filter was a little dirty, but not all that bad, and was not deteriorating inside. I ordered the replacement from Spartan for a total cost of $96.43. No way will I be changing it every year ...that is simply ridiculous...

[Mr_D]

I wish we had an easy upgrade path on ours. I put the Banks system on and now the filter minder reads 15 or a little higher even with a new filter. Turbo boost went from 24-25psi to 34-35psi so I know it's taking more air. To go to a bigger filter it looks like I would need a new CAC and intake tubing. The tubing wouldn't be too much of a problem but the CAC.....$$$$

[Gary RVRoamer]

Freightliner has been recommending annual changes too. Apparently there is a risk of the filter deteriorating and letting glue or paper into the turbo charger and cylinders, doing major damage there. I don't know if that is Cummins concern or not.

However, Cummins Engine does not specify the air filter itself -just its performance (amount of air flow). I'm surprised they would have any involvement in defining the filter change cycle. I wonder if it is Cummins Filtration, the division that makes various filters, that is saying that their own filters need to be changed annually. That would be a different issue than Cummins engine saying the same thing.

[uffdaracer]

I recently changed the air filter on my 2002 Monaco Windsor ISC 350. I was amazed that the manufacturer would utilize a "reverse air flow" design. This is where the unfiltered air enters the inside of the filter, then flows from the "inside out"???? What is the advantage of this? Unfiltered air is exposed to only a fractional amount of filtering surface due to the round design. I have owned a construction company most of my adult life and have owned numerous pieces of equipment employing many different designs and shapes of air filters, and have never seen a "reverse" filter. Does anyone out there know why this is done? Talk about a shortened life from the filter. Does Cummins endorse any after market filters that may be available? By the way, NEVER trust the little "change filter gauge" on the engine side of the filter. I have replaced filters that were filthy and the gauge indicated no restriction on air flow!

[Cat320]

If the filter minder says it's fine, why should we change it? Why is the filter minder there if they are not going to use it, or ignore it?

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer ...Apparently there is a risk of the filter deteriorating .....

And that be why you don't want to it to be in service for years and years... Given the sensitivity of the turbo (next item after the filter) to particulate damage, changing the filter somewhat regularly - even if the indicator says OK - only makes sense. The indicator is a crude measure of pressure drop across the filter indicating a crude measure of "clogging." It does not indicate overall filter condition. I do not use the term "crude measure" lightly either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uffdaracer ..I was amazed that the manufacturer would utilize a "reverse air flow" design. This is where the unfiltered air enters the inside of the filter, then flows from the "inside out"???? What is the advantage of this?

1) They are done this way so that any debris stopped by the filter paper that dislodges from the paper falls INTO the filter and not INTO your turbo inlet. Any dislodged filter junk (either from use or from the jostling when changing the filter) comes out with the filter leaving the canister (and intake port) clean.

2) You have exactly the same amount of filter surface area exposed on either the inside or outside. The pleating is "tighter" on the inside making it "appear" to be less but the surface area is exactly the same on either side of the pleating. It's just a flat piece of paper that's been pleated - same surface area on both sides of the paper no matter how it's folded or then shaped.

[Caluch]

Now there is a man who seems to know what he is talking about.... Facts are fun!!

[Mike Thomas]

You can watch that little filter gauge telling you that your filter is not plugged up, while age is causing the filter media to deteriorate and getting sucked into your turbo, charge air cooler and finally your engine. Your money, your choice, your engine.....

[AFChap]

Quote:

2002 Monaco Windsor ISC 350. I was amazed that the manufacturer would utilize a "reverse air flow" design

My '02 ISC 350 utilizes the normal "outside in" air flow ...you can see pics of the original filter I removed in 2010 on my website at Cummins 8.3L 350hp

[J Walker]

There is much discussion of when to change an air filter. The filter minder might show little or no vacuum, indicating a good filter or a bad filter. For the latter a hole in the filter means you will get little or no vacuum. So if you ignore the filter minder, when is the right time to change the filter? I adopted a four year interval and it has worked. The reason for a change at all, since I don't indicate a vacuum, is that the media could deteriorate. I just did a filter change and observed the media at the outlet. Just a little discoloration could be seen on the media at the outlet probably indicating some water mixed with dirt. Driving in a rain could ingest mist or even water into the filter. That could lead to deterioration in my opinion. I don't worry that my change interval is too short at all. It is a guesstimate and serves as insurance against engine damage. I can't say my interval is right, but I am not going to change the filter every one or two years, and four years has worked for me for eleven years.

[Gary RVRoamer]

I put 4 years on mine (ISL engine) and the filter minder still read a bit above 50%. However, for the last year or so I was seeing a drop in performance under full acceleration, e.g. hill climbs. I tried new fuel filters, had CAC checked for leaks, etc., but finally decided to replace the air filter. Bingo - performance improved immediately. And the old filter wasn't particularly dirty and showed no sign of deterioration - if I had just eyeballed it I would not have replaced it. This suggests to me that my filter is barely large enough for the air flow my engine needs and that even a partial loss of flow is a problem. Others may have excess air flow capacity and not have the same problem I did.

I used to be in the "watch the filter minder" school, but now I lean toward periodic replacement.