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Old 04-24-2017, 12:28 AM   #1
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Turbo Failures-#4

I just had Turbo #4 replaced on my Cummins ISL 400 engine at 89,500 miles and a little over 2000 operating hours. My Motorhome is a 2006 Newmar Dutchstar 4306 in service 12/10/2005. Current milage is 90,025.
All failures appear to be the same...blown seal with oil displaced into the charge air cooler (CAC).
Turbo #1 factory installed new failed at approx 27,000 miles
#2 Cummins installed and failed at approx 58,000 miles
#3 Turbo #2 re-built and failed at approx 72,000 miles
#4 Turbo #2/#3 rebuilt and failed at approx 88,000 miles
#5 Turbo from Cummins and installed the 2nd week in March 2017
After returning home I made an appointment at the Cummins West Sacramento Ca facility for Diagnosis and trouble shooting. Hoping that some engine anomaly would be identified and corrected. Trouble shooting was conducted with Cummins Engineers reviewing findings and providing guidance.
Road testing with diagnostic hookups followed by Dyno testing revealed all systems and readings to be within specification. Air input and exhaust pressures within spec. I have a copy of the printout from the testing, but most of it is Greek to me so I trust that their interpretation is correct.
They suggested that I have the Pac Brake inspected for correct operation which I have not done. The service manager who supervises my annual maintenance has no experience with a Pac Brake operation causing a Turbo to blow seals. DOES ANYONE ON THE FORUM HAVE KNOWLEDGE OR THOUGHTS ON THIS AS A POSSIBILITY??
As a note service is performed annually. Air Filter inspected and replaced as needed. I have a matrix of service dates, Turbo failure miles/Engine hours, my driving habits, Engine/Transmission readings and etc. (all provided to Cummins).
If YOU have knowledge or suggestions for me to proceed in discovering cause PLEASE SHARE.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:31 AM   #2
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Do you idle the engine at least 3 minutes before shutdown to stabilize temps and cool the supercharger? The manual has guidelines regarding the cool down period.
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Old 04-24-2017, 08:14 AM   #3
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I have the same question also. When you come to a stop do you shut the engine down right away? That causes the oil that is still in the turbo to bake and turn hard and chunky to put it simply. It is called coking. That causes the bearings to grind the chunks up and causes excessive wear in them. Keep in mind that even on an idle the turbo is spinning somewhere around 10,000 rpm and when you are pulling it could be close to 160,000 rpm. Also, the harder you are pulling the hotter the exhaust gas temperature is. You could see 1200+ degrees when you are working the engine. Most try to achieve a shut down temperature at idle (using a pyrometer) of about 300* with dino oil and you can use about 400* with synthetic oil.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:15 AM   #4
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Engine is idled at start up at least 5 minutes. Shutdown idle is 3-5 minutes. Shutdown is always never after high speed, maybe 1/4 mile after coasting or slowdown on surface streets. I try to be very careful. No emergency shutdowns.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:28 AM   #5
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not anywhere near enough idle time on either end. yup, sure, follow the manual and see how often you get a free turbo out of it. i get around 750k or 10-12k hrs. out of mine.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laj View Post
not anywhere near enough idle time on either end. yup, sure, follow the manual and see how often you get a free turbo out of it. i get around 750k or 10-12k hrs. out of mine.
You get 750k on a Motorcoach?
A heavy truck, I'd agree with you, I'd be hard pressed to believe your doing that with a MH.

And if he reads his manual, he'll see that 3 to 5 minutes of "cool down" (meaning no load running) is what's recommended.

Are you the guy we all see running his diesel for 20/30 minutes at campground?
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:16 AM   #7
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OP, have they looked at any restriction in oil drain/crankcase breather? I can't find it but there was a TSB on ISC for a revised breather where the turbo drain was plumbed into it. I believe it includes ISL engines as well.

Also dealer should check for any exhaust restriction and fresh air intake before air filter in any ductwork. Air brake compressor can also fail and pressurize intake, but usually it blows out crankcase vent hose as well.

Do you have a Cummins quickserve account? It's free, and will show any and all TSB for your engine as well as detailed diagnostic steps for oil usage, turbo, air compressor etc...To help determine failure.

Like your service manager, I've not seen pacbrak cause turbo failure, I've seen it cause a worn engine blow oil from crankcase vent, so I suppose it's possible.

Keep us posted on it, inquiring minds want to know!
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:23 AM   #8
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wish i had the time to put that many miles on a mh. i have 3 class 8 trucks, and 19 pieces of heavy equip. the engine doesn't care or know what its in, only how its ran. i run pyro's on every highway vehicle. if the pyros not at 300f, its not shut down, less then 15 min. stopping either. yup manual says 3-5, working real well for him huh. at approx 2k a copy, cummins thanks you
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