Turbo wastegate

[Parkerco]

Just got home with our "new to us" 2000 Discovery with the 5.9 Cummins/Banks power pack. Had very low boost and found hole in compressor feed hose and blown intake gasket. Fixed that but still only getting about 22# boost and pretty high EGT's (1200 to 1300 on hard pull) and Banks says should be 30 to 35. Put about 40# of air to the waste gate and it is moving about 1/2 inch. Is that normal throw on the wastegate rod? If it is then I guess it is working ok. Does anyone know if altitude has anything to do with the amount of boost? I'm at about 6000 feet. Plan to call Banks tomorrow and pick their brains a little as to why the low boost but if any of you on this forum have any good suggestions they certainly would be appreciated. Thanks for all the good help so far - Harv

[Mekanic]

Yes the altitude will have a effect on how much boost you get. A turbo is a pump (turbine pump)and while they usually are not as altituded effected it is not as bad as a piston pum is effected.
Wastegated turbos are even effected less than non wasgated models because they are not pumping at thie max at their limit at lower elavations like a non wastegated model.

[336muffin]

Is the air filter dirty? This can effect it greatly.

[Parkerco]

Air filter tests good. Going to change fuel filters but don't hold much hope for that. Does anybody know what the throw on that wastegate is? Mine is only moving about 1/2 inch on the actuating rod. Is that enough to open and close the wastegate?
Thanks - Harv

[GreaTOne65]

If you go over to the forum page, Power Train forum, Cummins, there was quite a discussion about the boost on your engine, started by me. I and some others have been through nearly every thing you can think of with the low boost on a Banks modified 5.9L Cummins. I have come to the conclusion on mine, I need to take it to Freightliner, and have the ECU checked, because the low boost may be because the ECU needs to be re-flashed.

Dale

[HeapBigEngin]

Can't help with wastegate specs. And not sure my setup is comparable to yours, but I have the Banks P/Pak on our 8.3 ISC. I live at 5,000 ft and routinely operate our coach at 5,500 - 6,000 ft. Depending on gear selection, rpm's and road speed, I can easily get 30 lbs. boost....even getting 32-34 occassionally. The Banks guys told me that some boost loss can be attributed to the thinner air at our elevations....makes sense to me.

Those boost levels were not always the case. I did fight a Banks "gremlin" in our set-up earlier this year...it started pulling only about 22-24 lbs. boost, with noticeable perfomance loss. I fought this thing for some time, talking to the Banks guys half a dozen times, finally sending the Ottomind computer in for testing. Turned out that the computer had shorted internally and needed to be replaced. I also put on a new wiring harness in the process. Things went back to normal, and the performance difference is amazing.

Not sure if this helps, but perhaps your Banks system needs a "freshining". I don't usually see the EGT's you are experiencing, however. Those high EGT's combined with a blown intake gasket might be pointing to a problem elsewhere. Hopefully, someone else can chime in with additional thoughts. I also think GreaTOne65's comments are quite helpful.

PLEASE let us know what you find out....Thanks!!

[Parkerco]

Tried to get hold of Banks on Fri but they are out 'til Mon due to the Thanksgiving Holiday. Mind me asking what the new Ottomind will set me back? :0( The intake was blown out due to the bolts holding the Banks intake elbow being loose so hopefully the new gasket and torquing of the bolts will solve that part. Will let you know what happens.
Harv

[HeapBigEngin]

Parkerco....I do not know if your Ottomind is the same unit as mine. The picture in my Banks brochure for your system seems to show a different type unit. Just dunno'. Suggest you call Banks and price it. My system's Ottomind lists new, I believe, for about $1200.....it is a very sophisticated computer after all.

I had contacted the tech guys numerous times and had also sent my Ottomind in for testing. They returned my unit, stating that it had passed their tests OK. It was anything but OK because after tearing the old wiring harness apart, checking ALL connections thoroughly and re-installing the "OK" Ottomind (all per their instructions), nothing changed! Another follow-up call to Banks resulted in their sending me a new wiring harness and new Ottomind at a very nice discount....I guess to make up a bit for their bum testing and for all of the calls I had made. Installing the new parts solved my problem....

Getting through to the tech guys is not easy, due mainly to personnel reductions. But be persistent and get the name of the tech you reach. Also, find out if they can test your old unit (cost me $10 plus shipping). Follow any tech advice they give you, and feedback your results to that tech. On my unit, everything pointed to the Ottomind shorting out internally. On the rear of our Ottomind, there are 2 external lights....red and green. Red indicates initial 12V power into the unit with the key on but prior to starting. After startup, the red light goes out and the green illuminates, indicating adequate fuel pressure being "sensed" by the Ottomind. In our case, the red light flickered most of the time, even after starting the engine. And the green light gradually died altogether. I suspect the Ottomind shorted out internally. And the new harness was worth the expense to insure some other issue was not hiding there.

I have no idea if all this will be of help or if your boost and EGT issues are related to your Banks system. Maybe something here will help you nail the problem. Please let us know your progress....thanks!

[Parkerco]

Heapbigengin - Thanks for all the info. The lights on my Ottomind (red and green) work like they are supposed to. In the process of finding your problem, did the possibility of the unit's ECU or the fuel pump or the computer on the injector pump come up at all or did the Banks people seem to think it was in their court? Just wondering, as I have read about some boost problems and lack of power being attibuted to that. Just as side note, my preveous MH was 93 Fleetwood with the 12 valve 5.9 and it had more get up and go from standstill than what this one does so I'm thinking I may have a problem not related to the Banks setup. On the other hand, I'm pulling about 6 to 7K more weight sooooo!! Maybe a trip to Freightliner is in order but have also read where FL won't work on it if Banks is involved. Any truth to that that anyone knows of?
Thanks - Harv

[skipwil]

"Any truth to that that anyone knows of?"
F/R wouldn't touch mine because of the Banks installation. They would put all NEW F/L parts & see if the problem was solved.(At my expense). I'll look up my posts and post them here.soon as i can find them that is. The compressor hose was my problem..
Safe travels...

[skipwil]

found it:::
Cummins advised me several manifolds have cracked and several turbo boost sensors have failed. The Cummins part # is 3949710 (molded air compressor hose). This fits on a nipple just forward of the boost sensor and goes to the rear of the air compressor. This cracked hose let the boost pressure out of the motor. I first used a molded heater hose to see if the problem was fixed. It was. Cummins stated the heater hose was not built for the boost pressure. The OEM hose is on now and the heater hose will stay as a spare-or if someone else has a broken hose I can fix theirs'. I'm just glad I was able to repair this myself and not have to pay shop labor. Neither shop spoke negatively about the Banks system. It seems to be the cleanest and best of all the upgrades. I've still got to test the repairs on the Interstate but from what I've seen so far it's o.k.
Thanks again for all the responses. Where would we be if no one cared?
Safe travels
__________________
JOE.. LEO(ret.)-active USCGAUX-
'01 FLEETWOOD DISCOVERY-'03 VUE pushing
ck. our website:www.overmountainsams.com

[skipwil]

this is the broken hose.

[HeapBigEngin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parkerco Heapbigengin - Thanks for all the info. The lights on my Ottomind (red and green) work like they are supposed to. In the process of finding your problem, did the possibility of the unit's ECU or the fuel pump or the computer on the injector pump come up at all or did the Banks people seem to think it was in their court? Just wondering, as I have read about some boost problems and lack of power being attibuted to that. Just as side note, my preveous MH was 93 Fleetwood with the 12 valve 5.9 and it had more get up and go from standstill than what this one does so I'm thinking I may have a problem not related to the Banks setup. On the other hand, I'm pulling about 6 to 7K more weight sooooo!! Maybe a trip to Freightliner is in order but have also read where FL won't work on it if Banks is involved. Any truth to that that anyone knows of? Thanks - Harv

Harv....you are welcome. My rather lengthy comments are an attempt to give you any info that may help.

My initial concern began with a dropoff in boost numbers...nothing was obvious when I looked everything over. Then, the Ottomind began making intermittent clicking noises and flickering the red light....even with the key off!! Somehow, 12V was getting into the Ottomind system. Then the green light eventually went out....permanently. Boost dropped to a maximum of about 24 lbs. Both Banks and I concluded that the coach was now running in stock configuration. I unhooked the main Ottomind harness and put in place the bypass "thingey" that Banks provides in case of Ottomind failure. This essentially puts the engine back to stock. The coach ran fine, but the boost remained at the 24 lb. maximum. Either way, it was the same. Banks also suggested I do some probing of the wiring harness and checking connections. They said that several years ago they had experienced a number of electrical connection failures, most unseen. I found nothing wrong with my harness, but I decided to get a new one at their discounted price as I mentioned previously. The system now works as designed....and I pray it stays that way!1

I have had both F/Liner and Cummins work on our coach....neither had any problem taking my dollars. However, none of the repairs involved traking down ECU issues, although Cummins did replace the notorious Cummins lift pump.

Seems your issue is different than mine since your Ottomind seems to be working OK. You could have a wiring harness problem. Your problem seems to focus on low boost levels and high EGT's. I would consider ANYTHING that could cause this. The Banks system is liklely only one of the things that could cause this.

Skipwil brings some interesting comments to the table. If you replaced the intake manifold gasket, did you carefully check the manifold itself? Sometimes they need to get hot before a leak shows. And a leaking manifold will lower boost AND raise exhaust temperatures. I believe that Cummins has had manifold issues in the past. Wondering if Cummins or F/L could check for codes....dunno'. Throwing parts at anything trying to diagnose a problem is a VERY expensive propostion at best.

PLEASE keep us posted....thanks!

[Mr_D]

On our 2002 ISC 350 I run 35psi max. I had two problems installing it: one was a different Marmion joint than I needed (had to flat sand the old one and install it on the new turbo) and a bad wiring loom. We did make a trip with the old loom in place as Banks support said it was OK, a diesel can't be run too lean unlike a gas engine.
I don't see 1300° very often and only once that I recall did the power cut back due to high EGT