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Old 12-15-2018, 01:06 PM   #1
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Turning up an ISL

Apologies if this has been covered a hundred times. But.....
Is it possible, in an out of warranty ISL 450, ('cause I know it would void it otherwise I'm guessing).....
to turn up the horsepower a little without damaging the engine or trans? Can it safely be done?
Is yes, would that also increase torque?
I know it's been done in other applications such as big farm tractors, different animal I know but still Cummins engines, just curious is all.
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Old 12-15-2018, 01:22 PM   #2
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HP and torque are limited to the max the 3000 MH trans will take. The 450 is already there. So yes it is possible to damage the trans.
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:13 PM   #3
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Mr D is right.
https://www.allisontransmission.com/...ls/3000-series
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:15 PM   #4
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I figured that may be the case. Thanks for the replies and the link.
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:48 PM   #5
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Some things I will Never Understand???????
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:32 PM   #6
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Ha!! Well, before you all crucify me here, I was just curious.
I've noticed a Tiffin A-Bus 45OPP that's 45ft but has a ISL 450 w/ side rad. If that coach is coupled with an Allison 4000, (not likely) I wondered about turning it up about 30hp or something like that. It costs $50,000 more to order the same coach with an ISX 605. If both coaches use the 4000 series (don't know yet), well.....you see where I was going with that. Plus I'm a little spooked about the ISXs right now, maybe I shouldn't be I dunno.
I talked to an owner of that model coach with the 450.....loves it but could use a tad more power on big hills. Just thinkin'.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:53 PM   #7
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I haven't seen a ISL with the 4000 transmission. But I believe many of the bigger Cat's, Cummins, and Detroit"s used the 4000 because it can handle the increased hp and torque. I know when Newell first brought out the 625 hp Cat C-15, they had to use the Cat ZF transmission because the 4000 could not handle the torque. Allison has since beefed up the 4000 to handle the increased torque and hp of the older C-15 and the newer ISX engines.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:14 AM   #8
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I have turned up many engines but mostly on semi's or tractors in the past. Transmission, clutch, differential, radiator all then become weak points. The primary reason for the change was for short burst of extra horsepower, not to go full throttle at the increased HP all day long. Speeding up the radiator fan solved many increased HP upturns if everything else had a sufficient service factor. Fellows that have turned up engines need to monitor engine and transmission temperatures very closely when climbing significant grades.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:29 AM   #9
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Call Cummins with the serial number and get the exact answer. There are many factors involved of course. You may have some room.

IF you have a rear radiator call Source Engineering and ask about their fan kit. It is amazing the improvement you will get with that simple change.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #10
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A 370hp ISL can usually be turned up to 400. The 425 and 450hp ISL have a different fuel and turbo than the 400 and a 400 cannot be turned up to 450.

The ISL is an ISC with a slightly longer stroke crankshaft and is already being pushed hard at the 450hp level. I doubt we will see any additional increases in ISL output.

Cummins makes the 12L 500hp ISX to fill in the gap left after they retired the ISM 450 and 500 engines. So far the new X15 605hp engine has been trouble free.

You could also consider an older coach with an ISM 500.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:09 PM   #11
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Thank you all for your knowledge, which has now become my "new" knowledge. I appreciate it.
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Freightliner Maxum, 450HP Cummins ISL, 3000 Allison,
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:49 AM   #12
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I have a 2017 Venetian that was a 400. At a recent rally the Cummins representative came out to my coach, connected the computer to it and said yes an upgrade to the 450 was possible. I had the update done, total cost was just shy of 1k and that is with maintaining the factory warranty the update is an Engine Control Unit reflash. Without the warranty the update is about 400.00. The max tq of a 400 and 450 is 1250, the 450 has a wider torque band than the 400.
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:34 AM   #13
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I've had the opportunity to evaluate the upgrade now. A bit less downshifting when hitting overpasses etc. Mileage no change so far. Climbing mountains BIG change. Coach will now accelerate after getting stuck behind a semi going up Monteagle on I24 in TN. Had to slow to about 35 when we got caught behind some semi's and once past them the coach easily accelerated back up to 55. This was a dramatic improvement.
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