Go Back   iRV2 Forums > POWER TRAIN GARAGE FORUMS > Cummins Engines
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-05-2014, 05:40 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Piker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,299
Urgent: Where's my oil going?

Quick recap:

Last summer we did a 6200 mile trip out west. Used a total of 1 quart of oil, and the engine ran great the entire trip. Got home, changed oil and straight piped the exhaust and got ready for the next trip.

Last Christmas we drove to florida from pa... about 1100 miles. We lost 1 gallon of oil on the trip down... and then another gallon of oil on the trip home. There was oil sprayed up the back of the rv so I suspected a massive leak somewhere. Turned out there was a crack in the oil pan. I fixed the crack, and no more leak... no more splatter up the rear of the rv. I thought our problems were solved.

Ok, fast forward to today... we're in Florida again. And once again we lost a gallon of oil on our trip down here. No splatter on the rear of the rv, and no apparent leaks underneath, except for the occasional drip here or there. Nothing wet. It's bad enough that in the last 250 miles, we lost 2 quarts.

I was thinking the worst... blow-by from a cracked piston or damaged rings. But when I pull the oil filler cap off, there's not really much vapor coming out. I've seen guys with bad blowby set their oil filler cap over the hole and it blows right off... I've also seen them "chug" when there's just one bad cylinder and you get a huge huff out the filler hole when that cylinder fires... my engine has a nice soft steady vapor rolling out of the slobber tube... and hardly a drip of oil comes out... regardless of engine temperature or rpm.

I also checked the exhaust side of the turbo after letting the engine high idle for 10 minutes or so... no oil. And no oil on the compressor side either.

Also, no oil in the antifreeze.

So where in the heck is all this oil going? Could a valve seal have given way that quickly? The engine is running great, and I never see any blue smoke. Only a haze when the engine is cold (raw fuel, but goes away after warmed up) and a puff of black when you get on the throttle until the turbo spools up.

I'm stumped... Help me out here.

-cheers
__________________

__________________
1994 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE - Engine Rebuilt and Restoration in Process
Piker is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-05-2014, 09:25 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 13,699
The most obvious thing, from reading here, is actual oil level compared to what your dipstick reads. What is the oil capacity of the oil pan + filter? Did you pour-in that amount when you changed the oil? If you did, what did the dipstick read immediately after you ran the engine to inspect for any oil leak at the filter? The aftermarket dipstick that is used by the MH builder can be marked incorrectly.
Another possibility is the oil seals in the turbo leaking at speed, and the engine is simply burning oil as fuel premixed into the air charge.
__________________

__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA 1SG, retired;PPA,Good Sam Life member,FMCA."We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution. "Abraham Lincoln"
Ray,IN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2014, 09:44 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Piker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,299
The dipstick reads the correct level when you change the oil and refill with the proper amount.

Is there any real way of knowing if the turbo leaks only at speed? This sounds like a plausible reason for using so much oil. I can't come up with any other reason for so much oil to disappear so quickly. I would think if it was going into the intake that I would see some oily residue on the compressor side of the turbo, but there's nothing. If the leak is on the exhaust side of the turbo, it would be much harder to detect, especially if it was only leaking at speed...

Sure seems like I should be seeing some smoke with this kind of oil usage... especially if it was leaking into the exhaust side of the turbo as that wouldn't be a very efficient burn of the oil. If it was leaking through a valve seal or something, it seems like the oil would just get burned up like the diesel fuel and there wouldn't really be any signs of it. I dunno... just thinking out loud.

I've been running higher boost levels than stock, but nothing crazy... maybe for the trip home I'll turn everything down (boost and fuel) just to be on the safe side.

thanks for the input.

-cheers
__________________
1994 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE - Engine Rebuilt and Restoration in Process
Piker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 07:13 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Coma's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Emerald Coast
Posts: 1,757
Are you letting it set overnight to measure the oil quantity?
__________________
Jim and Jennie, Cats=Bittles and Potter, 2000 Dynasty 350 ISC
2013 Silverado 4x4 Towed with R1200GS in bed.
PROV23:4 Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint.
Coma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2014, 04:49 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Piker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
Are you letting it set overnight to measure the oil quantity?
Yep.

I got some responses to this question on the dodge cummins forum... Apparently the turbo can eat all kind of oil because of a bad seal and you'd never know it. It could only be leaking under load... and it may only be leaking on the exhaust side... and once the turbo is up to temp, it can actually burn the oil almost completely and you'd never see smoke... or much of it anyways. At least this is what I've been told.

Seems plausible.

Not much I can do about it down here in Fla... just enjoy the rest of vacation and hope it gets us home. I suppose I could have a new Turbo drop-shipped to our campsite... it would only take a few minutes to put on... but probably won't go to that extent.

-cheers
__________________
1994 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE - Engine Rebuilt and Restoration in Process
Piker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 08:49 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Coma's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Emerald Coast
Posts: 1,757
If it's not on the outside of the motor, toad or back of MH then it's going out the exhaust. Mechanism for that could be turbo seal or exhaust valve seals. It might only be one valve seal. Fwiw, what ever boost you see your exhaust pressure is approximately double. In the extreme you can get valve float. Valve seals are at risk also. On the ISC exhaust pressure is limited to about 60psi in part to prevent exhaust side valve train issues.
__________________
Jim and Jennie, Cats=Bittles and Potter, 2000 Dynasty 350 ISC
2013 Silverado 4x4 Towed with R1200GS in bed.
PROV23:4 Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint.
Coma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 05:00 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Piker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
If it's not on the outside of the motor, toad or back of MH then it's going out the exhaust. Mechanism for that could be turbo seal or exhaust valve seals. It might only be one valve seal. Fwiw, what ever boost you see your exhaust pressure is approximately double. In the extreme you can get valve float. Valve seals are at risk also. On the ISC exhaust pressure is limited to about 60psi in part to prevent exhaust side valve train issues.
So do you think that even just one bad exhaust valve seal could show as much oil loss as we're experiencing? Almost a quart in 100 miles?

If there's a possibility that it's a valve seal, I'll hold off swapping the turbo until I put new valve seals in. Valve seals are easy and cheap... turbos... not so much.

-cheers
__________________
1994 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE - Engine Rebuilt and Restoration in Process
Piker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 05:43 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Coma's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Emerald Coast
Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piker View Post
So do you think that even just one bad exhaust valve seal could show as much oil loss as we're experiencing? Almost a quart in 100 miles?

If there's a possibility that it's a valve seal, I'll hold off swapping the turbo until I put new valve seals in. Valve seals are easy and cheap... turbos... not so much.

-cheers
If a quart were coming out of the turbo seal I would think you could see it slobbering, a peak in the the turbo outlet might confirm or deny. Valve seals…how many miles on the motor? I would think it would be more than one seal that is leaking.
__________________
Jim and Jennie, Cats=Bittles and Potter, 2000 Dynasty 350 ISC
2013 Silverado 4x4 Towed with R1200GS in bed.
PROV23:4 Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint.
Coma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 05:59 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Piker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
If a quart were coming out of the turbo seal I would think you could see it slobbering, a peak in the the turbo outlet might confirm or deny. Valve seals…how many miles on the motor? I would think it would be more than one seal that is leaking.
I did have a peek at the turbo... both on the exhaust side and compressor side. Dry as a bone on both sides. I even let the engine do a high-idle for a bit before checking the exhaust side and nothing... no visible traces of oil. The impeller shaft had the normal up and down play typical of this style of turbo which has basically a bushing just like a rod or crank journal... the in and out play was less than what you could feel by hand.

The motor now has 87,000 miles on it... but it's 20 years old. I suspect any number of seals could be dried out after that much time.

The weird thing is that this oil usage seems to have started suddenly. Like I said earlier... 6000 mile trip out west and back and only 1 quart of usage. Suddenly I get a quart usage every 100 miles immediately after that trip. Only thing different from the first trip to the second trip where we saw the oil usage was a straight piped exhaust. I thought maybe the difference in back pressure might have stressed the seal differently and caused it to leak?... I dunno. Just thinking out loud...

-cheers
__________________
1994 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE - Engine Rebuilt and Restoration in Process
Piker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 08:02 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Coma's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Emerald Coast
Posts: 1,757
You seem to have covered the obvious stuff. A quart per thousand miles is a lot but probably in spec. A quart in 100 miles will have to be fixed, let us know what you find.

Good Luck!
__________________
Jim and Jennie, Cats=Bittles and Potter, 2000 Dynasty 350 ISC
2013 Silverado 4x4 Towed with R1200GS in bed.
PROV23:4 Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint.
Coma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:30 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Piker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
You seem to have covered the obvious stuff. A quart per thousand miles is a lot but probably in spec. A quart in 100 miles will have to be fixed, let us know what you find.

Good Luck!
thanks... gonna need it with this old thing...

-cheers
__________________
1994 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE - Engine Rebuilt and Restoration in Process
Piker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:41 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Papa_Jim's Avatar
 
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manitoba,Canada
Posts: 2,638
The engine went 6200 miles on 1 quart of oil. Then you changed the oil and straight piped the exhaust. Now the engine is going through oil like crazy.

Well, considering those facts, it sounds like either the engine doesn't like the oil you're giving it, or it doesn't like not having some exhaust back pressure.

You might try a different oil. You might try putting a muffler on it.

It's like shooting arrows into the wind. You might get lucky and hit something.

Jim
__________________
Jim & Kate
2016 Creekside 23RKS
2014 Ram 1500 4X4 Eco Diesel
Canada, eh?
Papa_Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 07:49 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Piker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Jim View Post
The engine went 6200 miles on 1 quart of oil. Then you changed the oil and straight piped the exhaust. Now the engine is going through oil like crazy.

Well, considering those facts, it sounds like either the engine doesn't like the oil you're giving it, or it doesn't like not having some exhaust back pressure.

You might try a different oil. You might try putting a muffler on it.

It's like shooting arrows into the wind. You might get lucky and hit something.

Jim
Well, I've always used Rotella 15w-40, so that's probably not it.

It sure seems like the turbo is the issue, but man, I hate to spend that much money if it's not the issue. If it is leaking, it must only be leaking under high boost when the EGT is hottest cause it just doesn't seem to smoke. Not as far as I can tell anyways.

I dunno what to do. I think I'm gonna try to get home with it so I can explore other possibilities.

-cheers
__________________
1994 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE - Engine Rebuilt and Restoration in Process
Piker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 08:51 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
D Lindy's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,635
Go back to the old exhaust system and drive it for a while an see if the oil usage drops, if so then you know it's a straight exhaust system issue
__________________

__________________
2012 Journey 40U (Our Incredible Journey)
2008 Dodge Dakota(TOAD) 2005 Honda Shadow in TOAD
AF-1 braking system
D Lindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low oil pressure | erratic oil pressure | inconsistant oil pressure GlennLever Cummins Engines 45 08-28-2014 09:24 AM
$599.95 for an oil change? Bruadair Class A Motorhome Discussions 112 07-18-2014 12:18 PM
How do you get an oil sample from a Cat C9? DavidWSnow Caterpillar Engine Forum 6 05-20-2014 09:03 AM
Oil Change Thoughts Vtxbiker Cummins Engines 39 04-09-2014 09:20 PM
Check the oil. Giant Jeff RV'ing Humor & Crazy but True Stories 4 01-10-2014 10:51 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.