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Old 01-09-2019, 10:31 PM   #1
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C13 coolant question

I am buying a coach. It has a Cat C13 engine, with 50000 miles on the clock. As a final step I took it to a Cat dealer for a power train inspection today. There were a few issues they listed. One of them is about coolant -

"Coolant at +5 degrees and no conditioner".

I think this is related to insufficient additives in the coolant, potentially damagng the cylinder liner with pitting. My question is - how bad is it? Do I need to drop it because of this? Shed some light please.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:36 PM   #2
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Yes there are no SCA in the coolant. And that's not good. How bad is it-- really no way to know how much damage is done. A minimum do a engine oil sample , they will check for coolant/ sodium in the engine oil. Make sure the oil is not fresh oil. You can tell from the sample results if its fresh oil. If there is no coolant in oil then at least you know there is no hole through the liner right now. And if you buy the MH flush the cooling system and but some good diesel antifreeze in- Right away. Safe Travels
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:59 AM   #3
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Thanks Cat! (I like your user ID; guess you are a CAT tech ).

You confirmed my concerns. I did oil sampling too, the lab report shows Na 22. I looked up my previous oil lab report on my current Cummins 350 oil, Blackstone gave universal average of Na 4. So this Cat engine oil has higher sodium count, but I am guessing maybe it's not pitted through yet.

Anyhow, this coolant thing bothers me the most. It's like a ticking bomb, not if but when it'd need a rebuild. I think I'll back off the deal.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:02 AM   #4
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also, if you buy the coach, this would be the time to switch over the CAT Extended Life Coolant (ELC). It does not required the Supplemental Coolant Additive (SCA) that your current cooling is lacking. And it last a lot longer. This is the red coolant.
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File Type: pdf CAT EC-1 Coolant.pdf (167.6 KB, 19 views)
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:20 AM   #5
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Mike made a good point. Just like on Cummins I am using OAT coolant, looks like CAT has a similar coolant called CAT ELC.
Knowing ELC has a distinctive color, strawberry pink, and I saw the coolant was pink and the tech pointed it to me saying likely ELC.
If so, there wouldn't be a "no conditioner" issue. Am I correct? Looks like I need to call the dealer to find out what they really meant.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryFit View Post
the tech pointed it to me saying likely ELC.
If so, there wouldn't be a "no conditioner" issue. Am I correct? Looks like I need to call the dealer to find out what they really meant.
That is correct. The ELC coolant does Not use SCA.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:41 AM   #7
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Thanks Mike! A good news to me...
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:51 AM   #8
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I tried to reply to your PM, but for some reason I am unable to type in the reply box. I tried to type but no text would appear.

Anyways, regarding dirt getting into the engine, you should have an oil analysis done (as long as the oil was not changed before the analysis) it would tell you if there is excessive dirt in the engine (in the form of silica/silicon).

https://www.machinerylubrication.com...con-engine-oil
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:29 AM   #9
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Yeah sometimes the server acts up .

I just looked up the oil test result. Silicon is 9, assuming it's normal.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:49 AM   #10
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The article in the URL is a good one
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:11 PM   #11
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ELC does use nitrites in it formula. And they do deplete with time. In fact CAT had a problem with some of the new aluminum radiators depleting the nitrites SCAs. At 6000hrs you are suppose add an extender to the antifreeze. So it does have SCAs init.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:00 AM   #12
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In 2012 when my radiator was replaced by Quinn Cat in California they replaced the coolant with the Cat ELC. Last year I pulled a sample and sent it into Peterson Cat to see if I needed to add an extender, said it was still good. Now I need to pull one on my Ford 6.0 PSD because I have Delo ELC in it going on 7 years to see if it is still OK.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:15 PM   #13
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The technician in CAT dealer knew the coolant was ELC and still said "no conditioner", I am thinking Cat (above) might be correct - ELC does require additives to make it right, otherwise there won't be "extender" required after certain period of time.

Because of this, and the black smoke on start-up and kick off (CAT tech noted to me). After that I had someone else drive it so I could stand on the ground to see it, and it did smoke. I noticed that additionally it puffed out bluish smoke on idle. I knew the damage has been done to the engine so I backed out the deal.

Thank you all for your inputs. Love this board.
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Stroker View Post
In 2012 when my radiator was replaced by Quinn Cat in California they replaced the coolant with the Cat ELC. Last year I pulled a sample and sent it into Peterson Cat to see if I needed to add an extender, said it was still good. Now I need to pull one on my Ford 6.0 PSD because I have Delo ELC in it going on 7 years to see if it is still OK.
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I read on one of trucker's forums, some talked about using Delo ELC in lieu of Cat ELC. Is it ok to use Delo on Cat engines as you know?
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