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Old 04-16-2018, 04:29 PM   #1
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C7 Radiator/CAC Removal And Deep Maintenance

We have a 2006 Tiffin Phaeton bought new always been garage stored.

After 45,000 miles and 12 years on the original belts and hoses its time to look into it.

I always thought I was up on the maintenance on the motorhome but I was putting off the tough stuff until now.

With alot of help from member FireUp I am about dig into the meat of this job tomorrow. I have done alot of "prep" work over the last couple of days.

I am taking tons of pics and I have left a couple here to look at. Not a lot of room in the back.

Wish me luck .....Thanks, Joe

Please look at the last pic is the radiator leaking I am not losing any coolant ......guess im not leaking but it looks like a stain???
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:09 PM   #2
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If you mean the build up where the aluminum of the fins is attached to the plastic tank of the rad ( yellow arrow ) you have the very start of a leak .
There is a gasket crimped in between the aluminum and plastic that's starting to fail.
Hate to say is , but time to start looking for a new ( better built ) rad.
Preferably one with metal tanks instead of plastic.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:47 PM   #3
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Yep, not looking good.
Got mine from https://radiatorsupplyhouse.com/products/motorhomes-rv/
My daughter had one built and shipped to Fairbanks, Alaska for a 05 Monaco rear radiator on Alaska Air.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:42 PM   #4
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Gravity still works, could that stain be coming from someplace above? When you start taking some stuff off it might become more apparent as to whatís seeping....Iíd recommend using DRY compressed air to blow out the Rad & CAC....Donít use water as the debris will swell up when wet...You have a PTR, they usually last a long time with proper antifreeze.... Enjoy your new job....
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:51 PM   #5
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The Sights,

Well, as we've talked (typed) in the PMs, you've definitely got your work cut out for you. I zoomed in on the last pic of your post and, well, maybe you're developing a problem and, maybe not. There's no real evidence here. The aluminum used in these radiators is clean, non-protected aluminum. And, non-protected, i.e. painted, powder coated, or anodized aluminum has tendency to start corroding, the day it leaves the factory. Some will show signs of corrosion sooner than others, some later, depending on the atmosphere they live in and, how well the owner takes care of it.

Also, in most of these aluminum radiators with plastic tanks, there is a STEEL clamp that is used for clamping the two together. And, as many of us know, sometimes two dissimilar metals quite often, don't play well together. It's called electrolysis, just in case you're not familiar. In the pictures below, of mine, you'll see some good examples of this.

Oh, by the way, the statement that aluminum radiators last a long time, well, yes and no. In the pics of mine below, you're looking at an aluminum radiator with only 6 years on it and 40K miles. And, it had/has the factory antifreeze in it.

Before you go pushing the "order" button for a new one, I'd take yours out and take it to a reputable radiator company and have it tested. THEN you'll know just what position you're in and, whether or not you'll need to order up a very expensive radiator. And don't be afraid of cleaning it with a medium duty pressure washer. I've done mine more than a few times and never, ever bent ONE FIN on it. Now, this is a common sense thing. No, you don't use a 5,000 psi pressure washer at 1/2" away from the fins. The one I used the first time was 2,600 psi and, I was around 3" away from the fins.

Man, you should have seen the crap that came out of them. There is no possible way that a "garden hose" would take care of that situation. And that was coupled with the use of ZEP Citrus based degreaser. What came out of those fins (on both the radiator and CAC) looked like I was drilling for oil and hit the big load.

Anyway, take a look at the pics of what a real leak looks like.
Scott
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:59 AM   #6
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...FireUp....Even better way to clean an aluminum radiator is: while holding radiator in your hands with the connections pointed to the sky, repeatedly drop the radiator about 1 foot onto a paved / concrete surface.... This causes the radiator to vibrate & all that debris will work itís way out & fall onto the ground.... After a while one will find some residual debris...This can be then burned off with a gentle flame & waving of a torch over the front of the radiator....Done by radiator shops...Very easy to do...
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:35 AM   #7
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When I had my radiator out last year I took it to a radiator shop and had it checked out and pressure tested. Very reassuring to know when putting it back in that it has been tested and should (hopefully) last a long time. It was not real easy to pull the radiator and CAC and I hope not to do it again for several years.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ciderdog View Post
When I had my radiator out last year I took it to a radiator shop and had it checked out and pressure tested. Very reassuring to know when putting it back in that it has been tested and should (hopefully) last a long time. It was not real easy to pull the radiator and CAC and I hope not to do it again for several years.
1ciderdog,
I was DEFINITELY not looking forward to pulling mine AGAIN after only about 5 years since the last time I did it but, due to the major maintenance, fan hub bearing and related parts, water pump replacement, hose replacement, regulator(s) replacement and other maintenance while in there, I just felt it was the way to go. And, since I'd done it before, it really wasn't all that hard this time. I just put on my NCIS season 1 and, went to work.
Scott
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Old 04-17-2018, 03:49 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the reply's. It went very well today the radiator was out within 2 hours.

The CAC and pulleys took another hour.

Don't know if I mentioned that I had hired a local mechanic to give me a hand with this project.

We did get all 4 small allen head bolts out. We heated them first, then gave them a wack with a hammer and punch. They gave a little resistance then broke loose.

I need a little help with the bearings. I believe I need a total of 4 6203 and 1 6202. I am looking for suggestions as to what manufacturer I should choose.

The only disappointment was the radiator and CAC were not too dirty. Right now both are at a radiator shop for evaluation and cleaning. If needed he can order a copper/brass replacement radiator for $1,000. That seems fair to me. I believe if we keep the motorhome for as long as we hope to, I will need a copper/brass one sooner or later.

I added some pics. Thanks, Joe
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:52 PM   #10
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Wow,
Are you bringing back memories or what? As you've seen in my pics, mine looked EXACTLY like that when I got it back apart this time. But, some paint thinner and about a dozen of super duty table napkins (almost industrial quality for a table napkin, about 16" x 16") and, about an hours work and it was all clean and whatever could be painted, was ready for paint.

As for your bearings you're asking about. I'm assuming you're asking about serpentine belt tensioner and, idler, correct? It was quite a while ago when I did mine so, I do have part numbers but, they're different from yours. I use NTN bearings and, they're still spinning up a storm back there so, I'm pretty sure they are good.

The last time I had it all apart, I tried my best to force the bearing out of the water pump tensioner but, it wasn't happening. And, a new tensioner was over $100 if I'm not mistaken. I'd have to recheck my research. My water pump tensioner bearing felt real nice and smooth, even with 82K miles on it. So, it's still in there. Besides, with a little yelling, some bleeding, (lots of bleeding 'cause I'm on thinners) and some time, I could have that tensioner out without too much issue, even with the radiator and CAC still in there.
Scott

P.s. Based on how close I can zoom in on your pics which, isn't very close, I think both your radiator and CAC are dirtier than you think. But, it may be I just can't see clearly enough. No biggie. You're getting them cleaned anyways. One thing I thought was pretty cool was either Freightliner or CAT, used ALL STAINLESS STEEL hose clamps in just about all applications. Mine were in perfect shape. I just cleaned them and ran them through the buffer (just 'cause I could).
Scott
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the sights View Post

TIf needed he can order a copper/brass replacement radiator for $1,000. That seems fair to me. I believe if we keep the motorhome for as long as we hope to, I will need a copper/brass one sooner or later.
There is thread on "Brass/Copper vs Aluminum" radiators, and it seems the aluminum are better. POLL: Which radiator type

I always thought the brass-copper would be the better choice, but after reading the thread and doing a little research on this, I now believe the full aluminum radiators are the better choice (I assume you can get a full aluminum and not one with the plastic side tanks).
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:08 AM   #12
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Buy nothing but CAT pulleys and tensioners water pump etc. You have it open and you don't want to do it again, so use CAT parts and don't try to save money on aftermarket. You can go to the website link and look up your engine serial number and find the correct part numbers for your engine. Now that you have the correct part numbers search the net for the best price. I did that and purchase 2 pulleys for under $200 bucks and CAT wanted $400 each. That is how I saved some money, but buy CAT parts.


https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:32 AM   #13
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What came from the factory, a PTR ( Plastic Tank Radiator ) cannot be beat! Might ask a radiator shop owner, not a radiator sales outlet...The PTRís WAY outlast the old copper brass radiator... Sometimes change for some is hard to accept?...
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:04 AM   #14
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Buy nothing but CAT pulleys and tensioners water pump etc. You have it open and you don't want to do it again, so use CAT parts and don't try to save money on aftermarket. You can go to the website link and look up your engine serial number and find the correct part numbers for your engine. Now that you have the correct part numbers search the net for the best price. I did that and purchase 2 pulleys for under $200 bucks and CAT wanted $400 each. That is how I saved some money, but buy CAT parts.


https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp
Well, this is of course, a matter of choice. I kind-a have a logical way of looking at this type of thing. For instance, the first time I did all my radiator work, I pulled that serpentine tensioner out and looked at it and spun it by hand. It was just ok, not great. All components of that tensioner were in perfect shape EXCEPT for the bearing(s)(yes, there's two in that tensioner). So, to me, using either NTN or, an equal quality set of bearings, for less that $20 to make this thing as good as new, vs around $150 for a new tensioner, when all the rest of that tensioner was in perfect shape, well, I chose the replacement bearing way. I did the same action with the idler too. Both are spinning flawlessly after 43,000 miles.

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What came from the factory, a PTR ( Plastic Tank Radiator ) cannot be beat! Might ask a radiator shop owner, not a radiator sales outlet...The PTR’s WAY outlast the old copper brass radiator... Sometimes change for some is hard to accept?...
Well Sir, maybe you didn't look at my pictures I posted a couple of posts above this. That radiator, a "PTR" had only 40K miles and, 6 years on it when it looked like that. My copper brass replacement one, also with now 43,000 miles, looks waaaaaaaaaaaay better than that one. "change is hard to accept"? Well, not for me. I kinda figure radiator folks kinda know what they're doing in this situation. The factories install what they choose, for whatever reasons, less cost, easier to get and or manufacture, who knows. The replacement parts I've installed on this coach/engine etc. that are not of the same brand name or make, all seem to be working just fine, after plenty of miles to test for failure.
Scott
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