New Measures to Protect Your HEUI Pump

[CountryB]

There is nothing wrong with installing the "pre-HEUI" filter kit and the "post-HEUI" kit. Except the cash outlay.

[Cat]

Originally Posted by CountryB

There is nothing wrong with installing the "pre-HEUI" filter kit and the "post-HEUI" kit. Except the cash outlay.

Just trying to make sure people are aware of their choices, and then they can buy what they think will work for them. Safe and informed travels

[discovery39s]

ANY additional filtering on any system will aid in the contamination potential. The pre-filter to the HEUI will avoid potential damage to the HEUI if the cooler plate is distorted and leaking unfiltered oil to the system Not only is the HEUI at risk but also every other bearing surface. However, if the root cause, requiring the pre-filter, is the cooler plate then why not fix that and allow your engine oil filter to do its job.

If the cooler plate is distorted and leaking contaminated oil then it seems to me the change frequency of the pre-filter would be rather high. It sure is much easier to change the main engine oil filter then it is to change the pre-filter due to location.

I have removed several cooler plates now to find the gasket has slipped between the sealing bosses. The plate(s) have had on average .003-.015" distortion. After cleaning I "rub" the surface on a granite plate with 800 paper to achieve near perfect flatness: .0002". Not once have I found the engine casting distorted, always the cooler casting. I always spray the new gasket with Permatex "High Tack" gasket sealer. Re-install the plate allowing a couple hours full cure before introducing oil. This reduces any future potential slippage of the gasket.

If this is a matter of changing the defective supply hose to the HEUI then I might agree, might as well provide additional protection if possible. Remembering the element is not the easiest to change due to location. Also, at what frequency do you change the element? Without a tell tale indicator of some type it is a guess as when to change. Starving the HEUI of supply oil due to a contaminated filter element is not a good idea for Mr. HEUI. This could cause various issues: air ingested into the common oil rail, low oil rail pressure causing IAP to ECM fault codes.........

It all comes down to the comfort level of each coach owner as to what provides peace of mind and understanding the risk(s) of adding new components.

Have a Great Day

[roadking1217]

hey, just my 2 cents again 1st I want to say thanks to all for all the input on this common problem we all who have cat motors worry about now my question and I apologize if it was mentioned in early post (I tired to read the whole thing from beginning but...) does CAT make a upgrade HEIU pump that will not fail aside from normal wear and tear meaning at least 250,000 miles under normal use and frequent oil and filter changes if so does any know the cost of pump and can a backyard wrench turner perform on a side mounted radiator c-9 or the total cost by a experienced shop because all the forementined are just insurance policies taken on a already flawed design and I would like to know if any has done cost basis on pre and post filter, anti burst sleeve cking and correcting trueness of mounting deck ect as compared to a total failure of pump and injectors I realize the inconvenience this would cause while traveling but if any has these figures it sure would help in my decision really not much for insurance against something that in my case has so far knock wood treated me with all the power and no problems you would expect from CAT thanks GOD BLESS THE USA & safe travels

[Cat]

The latest pump, and the one in my opinion addressed the major failure problem is a 384-0677. It has a double tapered bearing on the main shaft of the HEUI pump. This was where the majority of the Heui pump failures "I saw". Saying this this pump came out just before I retired, so I have no long term experience with it. The HEUI is fairly easy to remove and install-no special tools or timing. Just keep every thing clean. This pump is slightly longer due to larger bearing in it. To get clearance you will have to grind part of a bolt boss for it to slip in. Special instruction REHS8178 talks this.

[discovery39s]

I agree with member Cat regarding the improvements made on the HEUI pump over recent years. I also agree that the HEUI pump is easy to replace for a back yard mechanic. Regardless of where contamination originates, immediately after the HEUI is your injectors. These are not as easy to replace and the need to flush the common oil rail in the head takes considerable labor time.

I don't believe this thread is targeting just the HEUI for all engine failures. This is a matter of choice. The totality of risk is contaminants getting into the injectors from either the fuel side or the HEUI oil side. The real question is: What is the possible cost risk? We filter fuel before entering the injectors then why not the oil after the HEUI? Contaminates can originate from many areas of the engine after the main oil filter or from the HEUI itself.

HEUI pumps can be installed in a parking lot with a few hand tools. Replacing injectors and flushing the oil passages would be nearly impossible and much more expensive. Post filtering of HEUI oil is the only way to control the risk.

[Journey cat]

I came across this article about updating to the newer Heui .
There may be a tad of grinding to properly install one depending on engine serial number .
Although , I have not throughly read the complete article .
https://avspare.com/caterpillar/content/i05350451/

[discovery39s]

Journey Cat,
Thank you for sharing. I guess I need to retract my statement of replacing a HEUI in a parking lot. Or, I should say: "The new double roller bearing model with a possibility of needing a grinder". My question would be, How are you to access this area and scribe the profile they call out to get the newer model to fit? It's almost impossible for me to access that area unless I hang my grandson by his feet. All coach's are different but most I have serviced have near zero room. They mention C7 but not 3126 or C9, unless I missed that. Maybe member Cat can ring in on application sensitivity.

[Cat]

See special instruction. Pump will fit C9. The boss that need grinding is the where the intake manifold mounts to cylinder head.

[Journey cat]

Im also on the fence on this . I have had some time to read it all , but do not see my engine serial # to figure out if it was manufactured after that date where no grinding would be needed . The sticker on my engine states Cat ser no KAL63088 .
Maybe you or others may be able to find it . As you see the choices they give are for Excavator , Motor Grader , ect . And not a mention of RV,s or KAL #s

[Cat]

Originally Posted by Journey cat

Im also on the fence on this . I have had some time to read it all , but do not see my engine serial # to figure out if it was manufactured after that date where no grinding would be needed . The sticker on my engine states Cat ser no KAL63088 .
Maybe you or others may be able to find it . As you see the choices they give are for Excavator , Motor Grader , ect . And not a mention of RV,s or KAL #s

This pump was not released until 2012-2015 Caterpillar stopped selling on highway engines 2010ish. So you engine would have to have the boss ground. Checking your serial number the pump goes through several pump part number changes. Going through Caterpillar NPR the updates it goes to a publication that says use this publication media number to update to a alternate improved part. This is the big bearing Heui. Have a Caterpillar dealer can walk you through it--- if the parts guy looks at the updates in the npr one update at a time. See copy of NPR included. Hope that helps. Safe Travels

[Journey cat]

Originally Posted by Cat = Checking your serial number the pump goes through several [B

pump part number changes.[/B] Going through Caterpillar NPR the updates it goes to a publication that says use this publication media number to update to a alternate improved part. This is the big bearing Heui. Have a Caterpillar dealer can walk you through it--- if the parts guy looks at the updates in the npr one update at a time. See copy of NPR included. Hope that helps. Safe Travels

Would update to a big bearing Heui Mean the dual taper bearing or just a prior largrer bearing update ?
Hopefully it will never come to needing one !

[Cat]

Originally Posted by Journey cat

Would update to a big bearing Heui Mean the dual taper bearing or just a prior largrer bearing update ?
Hopefully it will never come to needing one !

Sorry should not have changed terminology, yes they are the same- correct name is dual tapered bearing. As a added Note this came out after CAT got out of the Truck RV business. So these pump weren't mentioned in the truck and RV information. Also these pumps were released for heavy equipment engines that were experiencing extremely high failure heui pump failure rates due to their unique and very high load factors. Saying that they will should fit all C7, C9. But go through a CAT dealer, but don't let them dismiss you by saying oh no that won't work. Have them follow the Pump updates and the notes in the NPR. Safe travels

[Journey cat]

Thanks Cat for clearing that up for both me and others That May someday have to deal with the need of a new Heui