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Old 01-04-2019, 09:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by discovery39s View Post
The CAC is on the lower section of the RAD. Slipping a light directly in front of the fan hub shinning toward the rear is only a quick indicator of blockage. It's a simple means(for those that may not have an inspection camera) to verify blockage, not a fix-all. If you see minimal light then you can be assured the blockage is severe, more so between the RAD/CAC that you cannot see. After removing and cleaning my assembly, it would just about blow the grandchild over. BIG difference in flow. and dropped my air inlet temp 8 degrees. My cleaning was done with a bottle of Dawn, soft scrub brush, hot water, lawn chair and a ice cold beer(3)...............
Agreed! Simple Green will also work, and a garden hose is fine. Excessive water pressure will damage fins.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:15 AM   #30
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Maybe all here have covered Rad/CAC except donít be afraid to use a Low pressure Hotsy on most CAC or Air to Air there built right no fins to bend. You have to be carful with radiators AC especially back up by placing cardboard behind it . Now we have suggested trying What causes overheating let backup. Go to Harbor Freight pick up INfrared Gun (exotic) tool shoot radiator top and bottom shoot only when t/stat is open. Hard to do if you donít have rollers to backup on but doable. Verify with ECM logged codes or active suspect sensors with you If gun. Check RPM of fan when locked up I also suggest to check water pump pressure. Lack of (exotic) tools is just a guessing game. At 65k on your M/h the Rad/CAC should have been done. Do it right either take to a truck shop so they can find your problem within an hours fee or tackle it yourself.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #31
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Excessive EGT can cause problems too another reason to have a full set of real gauges. Excessive HP (turned up) too
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:04 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by discovery39s View Post
The CAC is on the lower section of the RAD. Slipping a light directly in front of the fan hub shinning toward the rear is only a quick indicator of blockage. It's a simple means(for those that may not have an inspection camera) to verify blockage, not a fix-all. If you see minimal light then you can be assured the blockage is severe, more so between the RAD/CAC that you cannot see. After removing and cleaning my assembly, it would just about blow the grandchild over. BIG difference in flow. and dropped my air inlet temp 8 degrees. My cleaning was done with a bottle of Dawn, soft scrub brush, hot water, lawn chair and a ice cold beer(3)...............
Discovery39s,
There are some rear radiator coaches where the CAC IS stacked sort of, on top of the radiator. But, for the most part, in most Freightliner chassis coaches, the CAC is directly in front of the radiator and also, at least on mine and quite a few I've dealt with, the CAC is almost identical in size to the radiator, with minor size difference. Couple that, along with the very, VERY close proximity to the radiator, and most guys will see that there is almost ZERO chance of an accurate and thorough cleaning of both units, WITHOUT the removal of both of them.
This is why I did it, TWICE. Some guys don't have the skill, the time, the place to work, the tools, or the energy to yank both of those units out and do a bang-up, thorough job of cleaning them. In the picture(s) below, what you see is how that radiator lower corners were clogged up with basic, normal street debris, hay, grass, leaves and anything else that the fan can pickup and shoot into those fins.
Two things. First, ANY CATS of that era, NOT JUST ONE YEAR, had the blow-by tube exiting at about mid point of the length of the engine. Well, for a front engine truck, that's not a big deal at all. It will have ZERO effects on any cooling. But, on a rear radiator, it can have drastic effects based on the next point.
Two, if the improper amount of oil is placed in the engine during an oil change, as in TOO MUCH, that will cause internal crank case issues, as in potential foaming, which will cause excessive vapors and internal pressure and, that internal pressure has to go somewhere. Where does it go? Out the blow-by tube and that means, if the tube has not been extended, you're gonna see oil soaked CAC and Radiator fins.
So, this is why if anyone out there with a CAT, especially in the eras we're speaking of, mainly the C-7, needs to confirm which oil pan they have and, the proper amount of oil for an oil change, which, for about 99.999999999% of the C-7s out there in RV world, is 19 quarts, TOTAL!!!!!

Now, as for cleaning them with a pressure washer, well, there's lots of guys that will run for cover if that is even mentioned. I did it with ZERO effects on the fins. I didn't bend ONE FIN with that pressure washer. And it's a 2,600 psi pressure washer. OF COURSE some common sense is needed here. You don't get a 1/2" away from the fins while doing it. You stay away, about 3"-4" or so and, as stated, no issues with bending any fins.

The subject of cleaning the CAC and radiator while IN THE COACH has been discussed a few zillion times. If a person does it, and thinks they've done it accurately, and their results are showing in either better or at least somewhat better cooling during driving, well, good for them. But, as I've stated multiple times, no amount of Simple Green, a ZILLION gallons of water, and any other EXOTIC tools, would be able to remove what you see in the pics below, without the removal of the CAC and the radiator.

The cooling systems on these rear radiator coaches can be fairly forgiving. In that, in many, many coaches, as in mine and many I've worked on, the radiator's and CACs have been as much as 75% fin clogged and still they drove down flat highways with what appeared to be normal temps in the gauges. But, where it all comes to a head is, when a grade is encountered.
Scott
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:26 PM   #33
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Looks like a mouse. Are you going to test your CAC for leaks while you have it out?
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:25 PM   #34
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Maybe all here have covered Rad/CAC except donít be afraid to use a Low pressure Hotsy on most CAC or Air to Air there built right no fins to bend. You have to be carful with radiators AC especially back up by placing cardboard behind it . Now we have suggested trying What causes overheating let backup. Go to Harbor Freight pick up INfrared Gun (exotic) tool shoot radiator top and bottom shoot only when t/stat is open. Hard to do if you donít have rollers to backup on but doable. Verify with ECM logged codes or active suspect sensors with you If gun. Check RPM of fan when locked up I also suggest to check water pump pressure. Lack of (exotic) tools is just a guessing game. At 65k on your M/h the Rad/CAC should have been done. Do it right either take to a truck shop so they can find your problem within an hours fee or tackle it yourself.
Very difficult to get an accurate reading using a infrared gun. Thermostat has to be wide open - so engine temp has to be 210 or above - engine rpm has to 1700 rpm or above to get enough coolant flow through the radiator to flow through the complete radiator ( at low RPM low flow the coolant will flow through radiator path of least resistance, so one side or the other or top or bottom maybe hotter or cooler.) The infrared gun accuracy is dramatically affected by the color and composition of what you point it at. If you point a rubber hose the point right beside it to metal the temperatures can be dramatically different. If the thermostat isn't opening it at all you might be able to tell with the gun, but you could feel that with your hand. If its only opening partially you probably wont see it with the gun. Safe Travels
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:53 PM   #35
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Itís called backing up on rollers (Dyno) one operator one shooter if itís shiny spray it black. At full load one can easily get t/stat open after shooting top bottom measurements are split any more than 10-15 split you have blockage. The IR gun will get you very close to actual temperature try it sometime.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:57 PM   #36
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Tried to for years never was accurate enough. Even with expensive Flir cameras. Too many variables. And I'm not sure how owner operators have chassis dyno available to them.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:38 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post
Discovery39s,
There are some rear radiator coaches where the CAC IS stacked sort of, on top of the radiator. But, for the most part, in most Freightliner chassis coaches, the CAC is directly in front of the radiator and also, at least on mine and quite a few I've dealt with, the CAC is almost identical in size to the radiator, with minor size difference. Couple that, along with the very, VERY close proximity to the radiator, and most guys will see that there is almost ZERO chance of an accurate and thorough cleaning of both units, WITHOUT the removal of both of them.
This is why I did it, TWICE. Some guys don't have the skill, the time, the place to work, the tools, or the energy to yank both of those units out and do a bang-up, thorough job of cleaning them. In the picture(s) below, what you see is how that radiator lower corners were clogged up with basic, normal street debris, hay, grass, leaves and anything else that the fan can pickup and shoot into those fins.
Two things. First, ANY CATS of that era, NOT JUST ONE YEAR, had the blow-by tube exiting at about mid point of the length of the engine. Well, for a front engine truck, that's not a big deal at all. It will have ZERO effects on any cooling. But, on a rear radiator, it can have drastic effects based on the next point.
Two, if the improper amount of oil is placed in the engine during an oil change, as in TOO MUCH, that will cause internal crank case issues, as in potential foaming, which will cause excessive vapors and internal pressure and, that internal pressure has to go somewhere. Where does it go? Out the blow-by tube and that means, if the tube has not been extended, you're gonna see oil soaked CAC and Radiator fins.
So, this is why if anyone out there with a CAT, especially in the eras we're speaking of, mainly the C-7, needs to confirm which oil pan they have and, the proper amount of oil for an oil change, which, for about 99.999999999% of the C-7s out there in RV world, is 19 quarts, TOTAL!!!!!

Now, as for cleaning them with a pressure washer, well, there's lots of guys that will run for cover if that is even mentioned. I did it with ZERO effects on the fins. I didn't bend ONE FIN with that pressure washer. And it's a 2,600 psi pressure washer. OF COURSE some common sense is needed here. You don't get a 1/2" away from the fins while doing it. You stay away, about 3"-4" or so and, as stated, no issues with bending any fins.

The subject of cleaning the CAC and radiator while IN THE COACH has been discussed a few zillion times. If a person does it, and thinks they've done it accurately, and their results are showing in either better or at least somewhat better cooling during driving, well, good for them. But, as I've stated multiple times, no amount of Simple Green, a ZILLION gallons of water, and any other EXOTIC tools, would be able to remove what you see in the pics below, without the removal of the CAC and the radiator.

The cooling systems on these rear radiator coaches can be fairly forgiving. In that, in many, many coaches, as in mine and many I've worked on, the radiator's and CACs have been as much as 75% fin clogged and still they drove down flat highways with what appeared to be normal temps in the gauges. But, where it all comes to a head is, when a grade is encountered.
Scott
Scott,
TWINS,,,, LOL. My Rad looked identical to your pic's. Only exception, no mouse. The lower corners were just about plugged solid after removing the CAC. I too was hesitant on using any "power" washer. I elected to do it by hand. As you also know, If someone is going to get that deep in R&R then its best to do all the bearings, belts and hoses along with the dreaded seized adjuster bolt for the water pump belt take up. I always do a rinse of the RAD at the beginning of season from the back side as a precautionary measure.
Do you have a VMSpc to monitor your engine data?
George
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:08 AM   #38
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George,
No, I don't have the VMSpc system. What I do have is both the Medallion Info Center and, the TripTek. Between the two of those, I have enough redundancy of engine operating info to drive me nuts. I get all the vitals of this engine, a couple times over.

One thing here. I don't know if you, or, anyone else that's got experience with goofing around with the radiator while it's out but, did you notice the corners of the radiator frame gussets? The first time I pulled that radiator, it was around maybe 70% fin clogged. Now, it took a whole gallon of ZEP, citrus based degreaser, AND, my 2,650 psi pressure washer to get all that GOO out of those fins. And, after all that work and effort, due to the fact that it was leaking and severely corroded in one lower corner of it, I canned that aluminum one and purchased a copper/brass one.

But, my point here is, the corner gussets were basically solid plate material. I thought, well, these radiators have to work pretty damn hard to cool these rear engine coaches so, why not give them all the help I can. So, while the system (radiator, frame and all that), I broke out my PLASMA cutter and opened up, all eight of those gussets. Now, I didn't get out my trusty slide rule and calculate the exact amount of square inches I increased the air flow by but, to me, at least in my mind, I DID increase it some, and SOME is better than what I had. Did it do any good, not a clue.

One of these days, I'm gonna figure out a place to put that power steering reservoir to get it out of the air flow of that radiator too. Will that help anything, probably not but, again, in my mind, in the critical air flow of this rear radiator system, every bit of restriction REMOVED, is good in my book.
Scott
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Old 01-05-2019, 09:33 PM   #39
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Itís overheating About every 5 miles stays normal the first couple of miles then moves fast to out of normal,stay to stay around 50 mph but continues to rise. Had coolant changed,hoses are good. On gage it moves out of normal quickly.
I am back to the thermostat. Lost man' statement, above, indicates a malfunctioning thermostat. I it was a clogged radiator he would have been experiencing a gradual increased over heat problem. The thermostats are not all that expensive and easy to change. I would go there first before I get into all that is involved with cleaning the radiator.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:04 PM   #40
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George,
No, I don't have the VMSpc system. What I do have is both the Medallion Info Center and, the TripTek. Between the two of those, I have enough redundancy of engine operating info to drive me nuts. I get all the vitals of this engine, a couple times over.

One thing here. I don't know if you, or, anyone else that's got experience with goofing around with the radiator while it's out but, did you notice the corners of the radiator frame gussets? The first time I pulled that radiator, it was around maybe 70% fin clogged. Now, it took a whole gallon of ZEP, citrus based degreaser, AND, my 2,650 psi pressure washer to get all that GOO out of those fins. And, after all that work and effort, due to the fact that it was leaking and severely corroded in one lower corner of it, I canned that aluminum one and purchased a copper/brass one.

But, my point here is, the corner gussets were basically solid plate material. I thought, well, these radiators have to work pretty damn hard to cool these rear engine coaches so, why not give them all the help I can. So, while the system (radiator, frame and all that), I broke out my PLASMA cutter and opened up, all eight of those gussets. Now, I didn't get out my trusty slide rule and calculate the exact amount of square inches I increased the air flow by but, to me, at least in my mind, I DID increase it some, and SOME is better than what I had. Did it do any good, not a clue.

One of these days, I'm gonna figure out a place to put that power steering reservoir to get it out of the air flow of that radiator too. Will that help anything, probably not but, again, in my mind, in the critical air flow of this rear radiator system, every bit of restriction REMOVED, is good in my book.
Scott
Sorry Scott, just got back to this thread.
See, I'm not as smart as you to cut out the gussets.LOL
I did however sit a a bucket with some cold ones and very carefully hand scrubbed the fins with a nylon scrubber.(Diane use to have a scrubber in the kitchen, shhhh) Anyway, YES, I agree, any small amount will help exchange the btu's.
Q for ya. Do you shut off the ball valves for the heater core in the summer? I did and felt a bit cooler up front. Not much but it seems to make a difference. Or maybe its just all in my head.
Anyway, have a good one!
George
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:12 PM   #41
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She's looking for that scrubber, I'm gonna tell her. Na na na na na na. Nope, never turned off the ball/heater line valves for summer driving. I kinda got mixed emotions on that. On one hand, you're not sending hot coolant up into the heater which, quite possibly, might reduce the infiltration of heated air into the cab through seams, vents etc.

But, on the other hand, you've got that amount of coolant, traveling through all those lines and a heater core, COOLING down somewhat, as it flows through all that stuff which, may have a potential additional bit of cooling for the engine. Remember the old school practices, if your car's overheating during grade climbing in the summer, TURN ON THE HEATER!

Now, I can't remember if that practice ever worked but, it sure was advocated a lot back then.
Scott
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:57 AM   #42
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Dollar store Scott! Na na na na na. I got myself out of the dog house over the .99 scrubber. Yep, I hear ya on the valve. I do open it here and there to be sure the coolant doesn't get stagnate. I guess if I didn't maintain the cleanliness of the rad/cac I would then need to "turn on the heater".
BTW, we got BLASTED here in Ohio. I could see the grass yesterday morning at 8:00 am. By evening we had 10" of snow. Went out to fill the boiler this morning to find another 5". The Lake Erie snow machine is in full effect!!!!!
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