Waterless refrigerant...

[VanDiemen23]

I've been racing for more than 20 years and never known anyone that uses it. If it worked, with areo being the most important factor in virtually every racing class nowadays, pro cars would use it so they can reduce radiator size and cooling drag. They don't.

the best coolant is straight water. thats what racing cars use, with a water pump lube and surfactant added.

I also race with the guy that takes care of Jay's cars - in vintage racing, and I don't believe he uses it either.

My guess is that it's too slick to be used in road or oval racing. No organization allow anything but water and pump lube. Glycol and similar products are slicker than oil on the racing surface.

Might get used in offroad where nobody cares.

My opinion is that's it's a niche product that solves a specific problem under specific conditions, and outside of that, if you don't have to worry about freezing, use straight water with pump lube, otherwise 50/50.

[Tony65]

In any case we have also considered this hypothesis.

It may be that today it does not seem feasible, maybe tomorrow will emerge new elements or even new chemical products (I hope so much) that will make the difference.

For me the study of the question goes on.

[aircommuter]

If you are planning on using that product you will need to replace your temperature gauge or run with it pegged, otherwise the boiling point of 50-50 is what you go by. If you are running that hot you have other issues anyway. Have you ever seen the ad where they put an oil additive in an engine then drain the oil and run it without oil? You might want go with that too, why waste all that oil?
I don’t think the hoses, water pump seal, heater valves and other components are designed for the temperatures that the coolant is capable of. Racing is one thing with frequent rebuilding and so on. Heat extraction is also important as the design of the block cavities and other places have 50-50 in mind.
I have been rebuilding engines and transmissions for over fifty years and have seen a lot different things to sell you.

[Mitimet]

My 2 cents is that I watched a Jay Leno's Garage YouTube episode on this same subject with a spokesman from Evans. Jay has been using this product for years in his best vehicles. One mention was an antique Rolls Royce that had prior extensive corrosion damage in the engine. Has had Evans in it I believe since it was repaired. The only caution I remember is that there can be No more than 3% water left in the cooling system with Evans. Hey I don't take Jay's advice lightly, the man knows his machines. I will consider Evans when the time comes for sure.
Good luck,
Mark

[tsvehe]

I read this entire thread on Waterless coolant. I have no heat problems with my Motorhome. But I have installed it earlier this year in my Nostalgia race car. This year I put Evans into it and so far no overheating problems.
The one thing that has not been stated here is the TOTAL cost of the switch to Evans. I was lucky cos I was just using water in this car and when I went to fill it for the summer, I started thinking about Evans product. The one thing that has not been started here is any conversion from water/antifreeze is that this all HAS to be flushed out of the engine and radiator and everything that is connected to that cooling system. The flush is also very expensive!! It runs about $24 a gallon and the Evans product is about $49 a gallon. In my car it took just 3 gallons of Evans coolant cos I drained the water out of the car for the winter. I know that my motorhome will carry a lot more that just 6 gallons.
I believe that as long as you maintain your cooling system and keep the system clean you will go a lot longer with antifreeze and water dollar for dollar than switching to any of the current available options.
Of course this is just my opinion!!!

[DynoDon]

I know two guys who used Evans - and NEVER will again. Aside from the preparation work to completely remove all traces of water from the system, including the heater, in order for it to work (and this requires lots of time, and expensive prep solution, along with compressed air for drying) the cost of the Evans is quite high. The reason both of these guys will not use it again are simple - one had a radiator hose go bad and the other had a cracked radiator from a large stone that hit the radiator on the highway. To get the vehicle repaired and continue the journey, they had to put conventional Anti-freeze and water in the vehicles and that would have meant spending the hundreds of dollars all over again. One guy said the Evans showed a Slight decrease in temperature, the other showed no difference at all. I would never consider it for a vehicle I travel in!

[Plasticman]

Originally Posted by Tony65

If someone uses coolant waterless on the expensive (very expensive!!!) racing cars, vintage cars and aircraft engines there will be a good reason, right?

I do not think that the experts in the field are... all foolish gullible.

There are no cooling systems designed for coolant waterless, there are coolant waterless studied for current cooling systems.

The only comment I have on this reference to high performance cars/aircraft using this product (if they do) is that their interval for use/flush/install new and use again is probably much shorter than what we would do with an RV engine. I, too, have a CAT and will stay with the Caterpillar recommended fluids.

Good luck.

Rob

[Craig1960]

I can't say how it will work in a diesel engine but I do know it works in high hp cars. I raced 1/4 for a long time and owned a shop where we built both drag cars and street cars. Never used it in a drag car because it wasn't allowed at the track.
We did use it in quite a few high hp street cars with success. We never used any fancy flushing chemicals, we just drained the system including the block blew it out with air let it sit over night and blew it out again. I have seen a drop in temps on the cars that constantly ran hot before we used the Evans coolant.
I don't sell the product but I would have no problem using it in anything I own.

[luqutus]

The big plus in my opinion is the zero pressure in the cooling system. I think back to the time I was chasing a coolant leak, tighten a hose clamp and it would pop up some place else and on and on again. turned out to be that high dollar ha ha made in mexico radiator cap was not releasing at the correct pressure. I now regularly check the cap to make sure it is releasing at the correct pressure. Zero pressure is a lot less likely to leak.

[DobeBus]

Originally Posted by luqutus

The big plus in my opinion is the zero pressure in the cooling system. I think back to the time I was chasing a coolant leak, tighten a hose clamp and it would pop up some place else and on and on again. turned out to be that high dollar ha ha made in mexico radiator cap was not releasing at the correct pressure. I now regularly check the cap to make sure it is releasing at the correct pressure. Zero pressure is a lot less likely to leak.

Zero pressure will also boil quicker

[Harry Moto]

Zero pressure will boil quicker... with WATER. With waterless coolant, you get very low pressure and boil at something approaching twice the temperature of water or 50/50 at at 15 PSI.

Coolant change interval with Evans NPG+; I never changed mine. No conduction = no corrosion = everything looks like new. I'd drain mine into a bucket, then pour it back in after maintenance.

My experience with EVANs coolant was in my motcross/desert race bike, and it was very positive. The low pressure is good, you don't blow your coolant load at the first minor puncture. The high boiling point is supposed to be good for preventing hot spots, but while I understand that bit I have never measured anything that has to do with that. The bike seemed to run about the same temperature wise, but you don't run gauges on motocross/desert bikes, so I can't say for sure.

The NPG+ is a thinner formula, made to run through the system more like water. Worked for me.

There was a disparaging article from 'NoRosion' quoted in this thread, but they are selling a competing product. I didn't experience anything like what they said they found.

In my opinion, EVANs is a better coolant, especially for hot engines like the Diesels we use. HOWEVER:
* It's slippery as the devil. It will never find a home in racing except on dirt, and that doesn't mean clay, only offroad kind of dirt.
* Where the heck are you going to find it out on the road if you have a problem? If you choose to use EVANs in your coach, you have to think about carrying a full refill with you everywhere you go. And that leads to;
* It's expensive. Really pretty darn expensive, compared to 50/50. For my race bike, a gallon was a minor investment that filled my cooling system twice. When you start talking gallons, and spare gallons... Mo Money.
* Finally, while it is, in my opinion, a better coolant... it's not THAT much better of a coolant, for our Motorhomes. What we got works.

Tony65, good idea, but it doesn't seem to work out in our (Motorhome) case.

ADDED: Forgot to mention, I switched to EVANs because the bike had a magnesium part in contact with the coolant. Bad idea, magnesium corrodes at a fantastic rate if it can conduct through the coolant. Evans is non-conductive, I don't remember if I replaced the part with the aluminum 'fix' or not... the corrosion stopped with the change to waterless coolant.

Thing 2 that I forgot, some folks would switch to EVANs by draining as much as possible, adding the new stuff, and letting the motor get hot with the radiator cap off. The remaining water would leave as steam, leaving the waterless goo behind.

[Tony65]

Originally Posted by Harry Moto

Zero pressure will boil quicker... with WATER. With waterless coolant, you get very low pressure and boil at something approaching twice the temperature of water or 50/50 at at 15 PSI.

Coolant change interval with Evans NPG+; I never changed mine. No conduction = no corrosion = everything looks like new. I'd drain mine into a bucket, then pour it back in after maintenance.

My experience with EVANs coolant was in my motcross/desert race bike, and it was very positive. The low pressure is good, you don't blow your coolant load at the first minor puncture. The high boiling point is supposed to be good for preventing hot spots, but while I understand that bit I have never measured anything that has to do with that. The bike seemed to run about the same temperature wise, but you don't run gauges on motocross/desert bikes, so I can't say for sure.

The NPG+ is a thinner formula, made to run through the system more like water. Worked for me.

There was a disparaging article from 'NoRosion' quoted in this thread, but they are selling a competing product. I didn't experience anything like what they said they found.

In my opinion, EVANs is a better coolant, especially for hot engines like the Diesels we use. HOWEVER:
* It's slippery as the devil. It will never find a home in racing except on dirt, and that doesn't mean clay, only offroad kind of dirt.
* Where the heck are you going to find it out on the road if you have a problem? If you choose to use EVANs in your coach, you have to think about carrying a full refill with you everywhere you go. And that leads to;
* It's expensive. Really pretty darn expensive, compared to 50/50. For my race bike, a gallon was a minor investment that filled my cooling system twice. When you start talking gallons, and spare gallons... Mo Money.
* Finally, while it is, in my opinion, a better coolant... it's not THAT much better of a coolant, for our Motorhomes. What we got works.

Tony65, good idea, but it doesn't seem to work out in our (Motorhome) case.

ADDED: Forgot to mention, I switched to EVANs because the bike had a magnesium part in contact with the coolant. Bad idea, magnesium corrodes at a fantastic rate if it can conduct through the coolant. Evans is non-conductive, I don't remember if I replaced the part with the aluminum 'fix' or not... the corrosion stopped with the change to waterless coolant.

Thing 2 that I forgot, some folks would switch to EVANs by draining as much as possible, adding the new stuff, and letting the motor get hot with the radiator cap off. The remaining water would leave as steam, leaving the waterless goo behind.

Thank you for your contributions!

Both Caterpillare and Evans haven't advised me to switch to the waterless coolant, but I believe that in the future there will be an evolution of current coolants, perhaps with new chemicals, which will free us from the problems that water create in our engines.

For now I remain at the ordinary coolant, but I am open to future developments.

I hope that Evans will formulate a specific product for our motorhomes.