Dexron 111 or TranSynd

[photoadjuster]

Just had my allision 4000 tranny serviced at the Allision dealer here in Lubbock. The choice is either the Transynd or Shell ATF. The Shell ATF is the replacement for the Dextron II, Dextron III or Mercon.

I decided on the Shell ATF because I don't change things that are working correctly and I did not like the idea of having to change Transynd twice within 12 months.

The exact label of the fluid that the Allison dealer uses is:
FormulaShell - Automatic Transmission Fluid
For use in vehicles previously serviceable by Dexron III/Mercon Brands.
　
No where on the bottle does it list the Allison specification number.
　

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by photoadjuste

No where on the bottle does it list the Allison specification number.

Some where on the container it should say meets or exceeds the requirement for TES-295 for Transynd.

The Allison website will have all the specification numbers for the fluid requireemnts for the 4000MH series transmission if that's what you have.

MH4000 Series (Non-Transynd)

C 4 Approved Fluids Tab Optimum performance and reliability of heavy-duty automatic transmissions can be noticeably influenced by the type of fluid used and the frequency with which that fluid is changed. Allison Transmission has designed extensive programs including specifications and tests to verify the quality of fluids and consequently have specific fluid and filter change recommendations. Due to field studies, changes in emission requirements, vehicle design, and operating environments, Allison Transmission has realigned recommended fluid and filter change intervals. Heavy-duty Automatic Transmission change intervals have been revised to more closely match today’s operating environments. In addition, GM has replaced DEXRON®-III with DEXRON®-VI effective January 1, 2007. Allison has made changes to 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 Product Families transmissions to be compatible with DEXRON®-VI. Allison has also created a new automatic transmission fluid specification, Schedule One TES 389. The new Allison specification gives OEMs and customers another approved fluid choice.

[sfischer]

I recently had to make the same decision on my 2004 Allison 1000 series-equipped pickup truck. Go with the Dexron/Mercon or Transynd. After researching Allison's site I found that the following were the ONLY TES 295 certified brands.

TES 295 Approved Fluids http://www.allisontransmission.com/s...jsp?ThisPage=3



In the end, I changed over to Transynd. It's more expensive, but is also readily available and hopefully will continue to extend the life of my transmission.

[Hooligan]

Wagonmaster2: Here's my try...
I have been using Mobil-1 Syn ATF in my year 2000 Allison 1000 tranny since the 1st change. My older trans cannot use Dexron VI because the seals will melt. (Allison has corrected this problem in later year models)
Since I still have 2 cases of both types of Mobil-1 on hand, I called Allison Tech Support..
1. Both the older and the new multi-vehicle Mobil-1 Synthetic ATF still meet the Dextron III specifications.
2. They are compatible fluids and can be mixed in use.
The label for the new Mobil-1 states that it is recommended for 2005 and earlier GM transmissions. ---Mobil DEXRON-VI ATF (A different product--NOT Mobil-1) is recommended for 2006 and newer ..etc.
There are non synthetic, non-transynd ATF's that are still labelled as meeting Dexron III specifications. GM doesn't support their use in GM Transmissions. BUT my ALLISON transmission can't use Dex VI so my choice is a conventional ATF meeting Dexron III, Mobil-1 ATF or a TES-295 synthetic equivalent to Transynd.
And- Allison has a new specification TES 389 for a non-synthetic replacement for DexronIII. The certification application for that fluid starts with "Provide specifications showing how your fluid meets the prior Dexron III requirements".. and so far there are no approvals listed. (The only market for TES-389 apparently would be the older Allison transmissions)
GM does state Dexron-VI can be used in GM transmissions prior to 2006. You will have to ask Honda.
And then there is DexronIII in my power steering.. it has seals and gaskets too........(don't ask don't tell)
I sure hope this helps.

[DAN L]

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

Reading the new label above for Mobil 1, it mentions Multi vehicle applications for 2005 and older vehicles requiring Dexon and then Mobil 1 VI for 2006 and newer vehicles. More confusion, for me anyway. Is there more than one Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF on the market or does one formula work in all vehicles, older than 2006 and newer than 2005? I have read, and stated by Allison, that the fluid labeled for 2006 and newer vehicles will damage the seals in 2005 and older vehicles. Does this not apply for Mobil 1? Is Mobil 1 Synthetic the same anytime the label says Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF?
I know this may be duplicate questions but sometimes us Seniors need to read something more than once for it to sink in. Thank you for your information and patience.

Wagonmaster2

check out AMSOIL universal synthetic atf fluid for automotive use, AMSOIL tes 295 synthetic fluid for allison use.

[wagonmaster2]

Thanks for all the replys. Isn't it amazing that we almost have to be lubrication engineers just to put some fluid in our transmissions? Every manufacturer wants a specific fluid for their transmission, a different anti-freeze for their engine, a specific chassis lubricant, and so on. Life used to be so simple.

Wagonmaster2

[edgray]

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

Thanks for all the replys. Isn't it amazing...........Life used to be so simple.Wagonmaster2

Yup, but then I remember when Kendall used to brag about their oil being able to last 2,000 miles between changes, and having to "grind the valves" almost yearly on the family Plymouth. Also had a 49 Pontiac flathead that would not start until I dried out the moisture that would pool in the spark plug sockets. ED

[mygrayhound]

I guess I'm reading Ed's GM post correctly when it states, "It should be noted that, as with previous upgrades, DEXRON®-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware".

Doesn't that mean it can be used successfully in previously built transmissions? (With the exception of the Allison requirements). Sounds that way to me IMO.
Gene

[edgray]

Originally Posted by mygrayhound

I guess I'm reading Ed's GM post correctly when it states, "It should be noted that, as with previous upgrades, DEXRON®-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware".

Doesn't that mean it can be used successfully in previously built transmissions? (With the exception of the Allison requirements). Sounds that way to me IMO.
Gene

Yes, Gene, I also think that is what GM is saying....HOWEVER, that "backward compatible" does NOT apply to Allison transmissions. ED

[mygrayhound]

I appreciate the reminder Ed about Allison. BTW I'd like to support your statement about the early April '05 date when Workhorse started filling the Allisons with synthetic, as just last week WH got back to me about my '05 Suncruiser (chassis built in late '04) stating the same time frame for the change over.

While awaiting my printed trans oil analysis from Balckstone (I was surprised they couldn't tell from the sample whether I had synthetic or Dexron) I called WH. Blackstone said the additive package looked to be the same but without an actual syn sample they couldn't be certain. As it turned out, with 27,000 miles everything was excellent, but I think I'll change to Transynd anyway before a late summer drive to Las Vegas.

That double drain procedure...do you know if it is completed in the same visit, or do you drive it for "X" amount of miles and then drain it again? Thanks,
Gene

[DAN L]

Originally Posted by mygrayhound

I appreciate the reminder Ed about Allison. BTW I'd like to support your statement about the early April '05 date when Workhorse started filling the Allisons with synthetic, as just last week WH got back to me about my '05 Suncruiser (chassis built in late '04) stating the same time frame for the change over.

While awaiting my printed trans oil analysis from Balckstone (I was surprised they couldn't tell from the sample whether I had synthetic or Dexron) I called WH. Blackstone said the additive package looked to be the same but without an actual syn sample they couldn't be certain. As it turned out, with 27,000 miles everything was excellent, but I think I'll change to Transynd anyway before a late summer drive to Las Vegas.

That double drain procedure...do you know if it is completed in the same visit, or do you drive it for "X" amount of miles and then drain it again? Thanks,
Gene

the double drain procedure depends on the shop that does your fluid change. some shops have flushing equipment, some don't.
i let my moho with the 5 sp 1000 tranny sit unstarted for about 3 weeks and drained 13.5 qts (including the filter) out of 14.1 qts. most of the torque converter fluid drained back to the pan. that's about a 95% fluid change, good enough for me. i used AMSOIL tes295 synthetic fluid.

[edgray]

Originally Posted by mygrayhound

......... with 27,000 miles everything was excellent, but I think I'll change to Transynd anyway before a late summer drive to Las Vegas.

That double drain procedure...do you know if it is completed in the same visit, or do you drive it for "X" amount of miles and then drain it again? Thanks,
Gene

GENE: When I first did my switch to TranSynd at 20K, after putting in the first "batch" I drove the MH about 10 miles just to warm it up and hopefully cause the old and new fluids to mix together via normal circulation. Then I did the second drain and refill with enough additional TranSynd to get to the proper level. I presumed that was "good nuff".

2 years later, after putting another 38,500 miles on the ODO, I did another drain and refill with TranSynd and changed the spin on filter. I'm now just over 87K and don't plan to replace the fluid again, as I believe I'm as close to 100% as I can get. The tranny shifts very smoothly both up and down, and even in mountain driving the scan gauge has never shown TFT exceeding 180 degrees. ED

[mygrayhound]

Thanks both...I'm leaning towards the Transynd and I'm hoping the Allison shop will do the most thorough thing? Sure hate to waste 3 + gallons of brand-new synthetic though! Gene

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by mygrayhound

Sure hate to waste 3 + gallons of brand-new synthetic though!

Gene, Take some consolation my friend. It's not a waste is the ends justify the means.