Dexron 111 or TranSynd

[Bubba-B]

I was told by the Truck Center where I am having a leak fixed, that Allison recommends that Dextron 111 be changed every 24 months or 50,000 miles and TranSynd 36 months or 100,000 miles. I only have 20,000 after 4 years or about 5,000 per year, so can't justify using TranSynd if this is true, any thoughts on this.
Bubba-b
05 Trek W-20, 29'RBD
03 Tracker

[GaryKD]

Hi Bubba-B,
Transynd all the way. My Allison MHS 3000 owners manual says to change the Transynd every 48 months or 150K miles. To be sure consider checking with Allison 800-524-2303.

[edgray]

Bubba-B: what they SHOULD have told you is that Dexron III is no longer made. It's replacement is Dexron VI, and you must NOT put DEX VI in your Allison tranny. It WILL cause problems.

You will need to replace the original Dex III, if that is what you have, with one of several Allison spec TES-295 fluids, and TranSynd is their recommended fluid.

Workhorse began loading the Allison trannies with 100% TranSynd on their production line April 6, 2005 so you will need to know the build date of your chassis to verify which fluid you have. ED

[phays]

I just made my second change of transynd in my 3060 transmission. The booklet I picked up at the Detroit-Allison shop specifies fluid changes at 300,000 miles, 6,000 hours, or 48 months. Filter changes are 75,000 miles, 3,000 hours, or 36 months. These requirements are for a "general" duty cycle.

I decided to make the change to transynd so I could quit having my fluid changed every year. Although the fluid change will be 48 months (I don't put on enough miles for the 300,000 mile requirement) I plan on changing the fluid at the same time as I make the filter changes. I don't want to track different requirements for maintenance on the transmission and worry about 3 year filter and 4 year fluid.

[Bubba-B]

Thanks for the replies, I called the shop and went with Transynd. The leak was the output seal. Very costly.....
Bubba-B

[Marty S.]

Dexron III is still being made. Valvoline and Chevron make Dexron III/Mercon and it meets Allisons spec requirments. I've been using it for 6 years in both model 3060 and 4000 series trans. Yes, synthetic is better but we need to remember that Allison has been around many-many years and made their reputation on dinosaur squezzins long before synthetics became somewhat affordable. Marty

[edgray]

IF Dexron III is still being made, it is without the approval of GM, which owns and licenses the use of the name. Below is a partial quote from a GM publication:

Quote

GeneralMotors DEXRON®-VI Global Service-Fill Specification

During early 2005 General Motors released a newly developed automatic transmission fluid (ATF) for the factory fill of all GM Powertrain stepped gear automatic transmissions. The new fluid provides significantly improved performance in terms of friction durability, viscosity stability, aeration and foam control and oxidation resistance. In addition, the fluid has the potential to enable improved fuel economy and extended drain intervals. Since the performance of the new fluid far exceeded that of the DEXRON®-III service-fill fluids available at the time it became necessary to upgrade the DEXRON® service-fill specification in order to ensure that similar fluids were available in the market for service situations. This latest upgrade to the service- fill specification is designated DEXRON®-VI.
Since General Motors introduced the first ATF service-fill specification in 1949 it has been periodically necessary to upgrade the specification. This upgrading process ensures that available service fill fluids are of an appropriate quality for use in transmissions that have been designed around the factory fill fluid performance. It should be noted that, as with previous upgrades, DEXRON®-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware. More importantly, earlier type fluids are not forward compatible with transmission hardware that was designed to use DEXRON®-VI fluid, i.e. DEXRON®-III is not compatible with the most recently designed transmissions, and the use of these earlier type fluids could result in transmission damage. All current calibrations and certification tests are now conducted with DEXRON®-VI ATF. DEXRON®-III fluids should not be used for these applications where the owners manual recommends the use of DEXRON®-VI. GM does not license or support obsolete ATF specifications or the use of fluids that are being marketed against cancelled specifications.

All DEXRON®-III licenses expire at the end of 2006 and will not be renewed. Beyond that date GM will only support the use of DEXRON®-VI fluids for use in Hydra-Matic transmissions. Fluids sold in the market after that date bearing claims such as “suitable for use in DEXRON®-III applications” or similar wording should be avoided. DEXRON®-VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications.
The use of unlicensed fluids and/or non GM approved aftermarket additives may prove detrimental to transmission performance and void warranty coverage. end quote

There is also an Allison "Watch" bullentin specifically warning against putting Dexron VI in Allison trannies manufactured prior to specific serial numbers.
ED

[Marty S.]

edgray, With all do respect you should check your sources. If GM has a patend or exclusive right to Dexron lll/Mercon then other manufacturers could not sell it as you say but they don't.
Valvoline #uv353 quarts
Valvoline #357 gallon jugs
Chevron # Dexatf-chevron
NAPA also has their product
If what you say was true, GM could make them take it off the market.
Go to an auto parts store and look. Its there, I gave you just some of the part#'s.
Marty

[edgray]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty S. edgray, With all do respect you should check your sources.......Marty

Marty: I published the source......regardless, I have nothing to gain or lose by continuing the debate about product availablity. All I stated was that "it is without the approval of GM", which is clear IMO.

Interested parties can also review Allison publication number SA5429EN, published December 2008, available on their website.

ED

[Marty S.]

edgray, Looking at Allisons 1099-H form,it states that for transmissions before a certain serial number Dexron lll ,if available and meets tes 295 is ok. I do know that the Valvoline and Chevron products do (according to them). Maybe they renamed it Dexron/Mercon to get around any exclusive rights. I also know that Dexron lll and Dexron lV are not interchangeable for old to new or new to old transmissions. My point was that for people with older coaches that don't really want to go to synthetic fluid for whatever reason, still can get a TES-295 approved fluid.
This is not ment to argue but just that we have a choice. Marty

[oemtech]

You can use Dex III as long as you can find it. You can also use Mobil 1 Syntetic ATF. But, be aware Mobil 1 has changed the wording on the label. The old label says it is a replacement for Dex III. But, the new label does not use the words "Dexron III".

Old Label



New Label



I used Mobil 1 Synthetic but the next change will be Transynd.

[wagonmaster2]

All this ATF changes sure is confusing. I use Transynd in the Allison but for my Honda and Chevy PU where I don't use synthetic I don't know what to change to. These vehicles are pre 2006. Dexron III is not available and Dexron VI is not to be used in pre 2006 vehicles. Even the bottles of Dexron VI say not to use in pre 2006 vehicles. What to do? Several brands call them Multi-vehicle Use. Does anyone know if this qualifies for Dexron III use.

Wagonmaster2

[Marty S.]

Thats is what my previous post was answering. Dexron/Mercon is the replacement for Dexron III if you don,t want to go to a synthetic. Go to the Valvoline web side and check it out. Chevron also makes it. Now some will say that it is not a licensed GM product but if that was true why has it not been pulled off the market. Not offering a non synthetic product for older transmissions would be like not offering non synthetic product for for older engines and the oil companies won't let that happen. Now don't get me wrong, I know synthetics can and maybe better but we still have a choice. Marty

[wagonmaster2]

Reading the new label above for Mobil 1, it mentions Multi vehicle applications for 2005 and older vehicles requiring Dexon and then Mobil 1 VI for 2006 and newer vehicles. More confusion, for me anyway. Is there more than one Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF on the market or does one formula work in all vehicles, older than 2006 and newer than 2005? I have read, and stated by Allison, that the fluid labeled for 2006 and newer vehicles will damage the seals in 2005 and older vehicles. Does this not apply for Mobil 1? Is Mobil 1 Synthetic the same anytime the label says Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF?
I know this may be duplicate questions but sometimes us Seniors need to read something more than once for it to sink in. Thank you for your information and patience.

Wagonmaster2