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10-22-2016, 04:11 PM
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#1
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Member
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Runaway Bay, TX
Posts: 57
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Difference between Dextron III & TranSynd?
I just bought our 2005 Holiday Rambler Navigator with an Allison HD4000MH and after arriving at the shelter, I ran the diagnosis fluid level from the cockpit shifter - and the results say that I'm 6 quarts low. So, I actually have two questions: 1.) Is there a way to tell which kind of fluid is already in the transmission because the owner's manual says not to mix the two different kinds of fluids - and there is not a tag on the dip-stick indicating which fluid has been previously used. And.... 2.) And is there a way to determine if I have a 2" or a 4" sump? Should be a known sump based on the year and make of the coach.
Thanks for any and all help.
Kevin
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10-22-2016, 05:41 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 3,902
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When was it last changed? If the dealer did it, guarenteed it's the cheapest stuff he could find, or 2) he lied and it's the original fluid. Me? I'd redo the fluid and filters, it's sooooo easy and now you know.
You likely have the shallow pan, as I do on my 06 Safari. The manual has some pictures, but I can go measure my shallow pan if that's a help.
__________________
Cheers,
TonyMac
2006 Monaco Safari Cheetah 40PMT
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10-22-2016, 06:36 PM
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#3
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Member
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Runaway Bay, TX
Posts: 57
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I could change it, but when I did the fluid analysis, it came back completely clean with not one level out of whack - and I'll have to ask the dealer if they did replace it or not as I know its their practice to change the oil, but was not under the impression that they changed the transmission fluid. Although this would explain why its low if they didn't put enough in it once they replaced it. Seems odd to be 6 quarts low. Also, with TranSynd being so expensive, would rather not have to replace perfectly good fluid. Surely there's a difference in the look and consistency right? Dextron is a distinct color - is TranSynd the same color or is it different?
Thanks.
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10-22-2016, 06:44 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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What is "Dextron III"?. I know they used to make Dexron III, but GM no longer tests nor certifies it.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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10-22-2016, 06:53 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatchinRays
I could change it, but when I did the fluid analysis, it came back completely clean with not one level out of whack - and I'll have to ask the dealer if they did replace it or not as I know its their practice to change the oil, but was not under the impression that they changed the transmission fluid. Although this would explain why its low if they didn't put enough in it once they replaced it. Seems odd to be 6 quarts low. Also, with TranSynd being so expensive, would rather not have to replace perfectly good fluid. Surely there's a difference in the look and consistency right? Dextron is a distinct color - is TranSynd the same color or is it different?
Thanks.
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You have the 4" sump and if the fluid has never been changed, it's Transynd or at least a TES295 which is the Allison spec for Synthetic. When you checked the level with the shift pad, was the coach level? The 4000 transmission takes significantly more fluid than the much more common 3000. If a dealer changed the fluid & didn't realize that it was a 4000, they could have under filled it. The color of both Transynd and Dex III is very close, a deep red. Transynd turns dark, almost like Coke with a red cast with age.
The fluids are compatible but if you add Dex III to a TES295 fluid then you lose the advantage of the longer life of the synthetic.
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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10-22-2016, 08:19 PM
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#6
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Member
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Runaway Bay, TX
Posts: 57
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As I read the question of whether or not the coach was level, I realized that of course the coach was level - but not the frame and chassis - its very un-level and I didn't think about that until you asked this question. I leveled the coach when I parked it into the RV shelter - but that just levels the living portion of the coach and not the chassis - so now I'll have to check it again when the whole coach is level....but you'd think that just because its on a slant, it wouldn't be showing 6 quarts low if it wasn't at least some-what low.
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10-22-2016, 08:39 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatchinRays
As I read the question of whether or not the coach was level, I realized that of course the coach was level - but not the frame and chassis - its very un-level and I didn't think about that until you asked this question. I leveled the coach when I parked it into the RV shelter - but that just levels the living portion of the coach and not the chassis - so now I'll have to check it again when the whole coach is level....but you'd think that just because its on a slant, it wouldn't be showing 6 quarts low if it wasn't at least some-what low.
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When you level your coach the chassis levels also as the house portion is rigidly attached to the chassis. Also the transmission must be up to at least 140 degrees. When you press the up and down arrows on the shift pad, the display will go into a countdown starting with about 6 or 7 and countdown for about 2 minutes before it reports the level. What is the display actually showing. If your display is a single digit, it would display as follow:
O-L-L-6. This would be 6 qts low.
O-L-H-6. This would be 6 qts high.
O-L-O-K. Is what you want to see.
The Allison 4000 takes 10 gallons of fluid so 6 qts low is certainly possible. If you determine that you are really low, then I would add about 1/2 of the shortage first and then drive enough to get the temp up and then check level again.
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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10-22-2016, 09:53 PM
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#8
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Member
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Runaway Bay, TX
Posts: 57
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Well, my manual says that low fluid levels would read this: o L L o 0 2 for 2 quarts low....but mine reads this: o L L o 6 it misses the first 0 when referencing the level of "06" quarts low...it just reads "6" But the temp of the fluid was 169 degrees and it read just that "o L L o 6" so I am guessing that its 6 quarts low. And I stand corrected about the level of the engine and trans when leveling the coach - so it was level when I checked it. Thanks.
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10-23-2016, 07:29 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatchinRays
Well, my manual says that low fluid levels would read this: o L L o 0 2 for 2 quarts low....but mine reads this: o L L o 6 it misses the first 0 when referencing the level of "06" quarts low...it just reads "6" But the temp of the fluid was 169 degrees and it read just that "o L L o 6" so I am guessing that its 6 quarts low. And I stand corrected about the level of the engine and trans when leveling the coach - so it was level when I checked it. Thanks.
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Hey Kevin,
Sounds like you're low. Allison has changed their display over the years and the read out changes somewhat. I had a '97 with a two digit display. Then they used a single digit display for a few years and now they are back to 2 digits. I check the level regularly and frankly don't remember the specifics of how the display reads. I couldn't tell you for sure if mine displays the zero before the number or not. It may be that the two digits display that way the the single digit doesn't.
Since your fluid tested good and is significantly low on fluid, I'm guessing that it was changed recently. You should try to verify that with the dealer or PO if possible. That way you will know for sure if it's TES295 (Transynd or equal) or Dexron III and when the fluid and filters were changed last.
Your problem is if you can't get that info. You are down six qts now which is about what you would lose with a filter change. You would need to add Transynd in case that is what you have now. Filters need to be changed at 36 months anyway. If JG Lube Services did the analysis, call their number and talk to Tom Johnson. You may have read his thread here. Even if they didn't do the analysis he will advise you. He might be able to make an educated guess about whether you have a TES295 fluid or not. It's really critical to your billfold to know that, otherwise it will take two complete fluid changes to be sure of 100% TES295 and then use that maintenance schedule.
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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10-28-2016, 02:17 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 13,090
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__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
Criticism is easier than Craftsmanship
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10-28-2016, 02:26 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: michigan-tip of the mitt
Posts: 1,444
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My Navigator has a dip stick for the tranny. I like to see the fluid so I check the dip stick not the shifter pad. JMHO
__________________
2003 Class C, 29' Gulfstream
Next stop?
Previous rigs..2 Pickup campers,2 TT's, 3 DP MH's
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12-08-2016, 08:59 PM
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#12
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Member
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Runaway Bay, TX
Posts: 57
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Update: just wanted to let the forum know that even though my transmission digital read-out only gave an indication of being 6 quarts low, I've spoken with the Allison tech support and they've informed me that even if my coach was 12 quarts low, it would still only read 6 quarts low as that's the highest number it will display. And a sad update, is that I've now put 16 quarts in the transmission and it is just now touching the bottom of the dipstick - Yeah, I know, its going to wind up taking about 20 quarts to get it to the normal operating level - so that means that the dealership let me leave their premises with only about half the fluid it needed. You'd think when there is a 15 point check list that they go through, including changing the oil - you'd think they'd at least have checked the transmission level.
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12-08-2016, 10:18 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 13,090
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Thanks for the update.
I have used Dexron III since I bought the coach new in 2004 and switched to Transynd about a year ago.
I've always done my own oil and transmission fluid changes and couldn't tell you the difference between the two fluids as far as color or texture is concerned.
Is there any sign of transmission fluid leaking out? Seems like 16 quarts disappearing would leave a trail of some sort.
__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
Criticism is easier than Craftsmanship
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12-08-2016, 10:27 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,735
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Do not trust the dip stick. The stick is an add on by the chassis manufacturer and they take a wild guess as to how long it needs to be. Use the shift pad to get the correct reading
__________________
Don
2002 Country Coach Intrigue
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