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View Poll Results: Are you currently running oil analysis on your engine or your Allison transmission?
Yes. I'm a believer in oil analysis! 223 35.06%
Not at this time but I might if I knew more about it. 358 56.29%
No. I think it costs too much. 39 6.13%
No. I don't believe in it. I think it's pure "bunk" ! 20 3.14%
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:37 AM   #29
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:29 PM   #30
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Hi Tom,

Asked this question on another forum but missed the answer. I have a 2004 3000 Allison transmission that I did the 2-change change-over to Transynd from Dexron. My Allison book says to change the filters at 36 months and the fluid at 48 months. If an oil analysis says the oil is fine and can go longer than the 48 months do I still need to stick with the 36 month filter changes? Or do I just change filters when I change fluid?

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Old 04-20-2011, 05:47 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by wagonmaster2 View Post
Hi Tom,

Asked this question on another forum but missed the answer. I have a 2004 3000 Allison transmission that I did the 2-change change-over to Transynd from Dexron. My Allison book says to change the filters at 36 months and the fluid at 48 months. If an oil analysis says the oil is fine and can go longer than the 48 months do I still need to stick with the 36 month filter changes? Or do I just change filters when I change fluid?

Wagonmaster2
Wagonmaster2,
Here's the deal. I believe you can run filters longer but you'll need to run oil analysis and it "must" include particle count and should include ISO Cleanliness Code. Oil analysis will tell you all you need to know about the fluid life (provided you're also getting the TAN (Total Acid Number) information. The only thing a typical oil analysis won't tell you is how much debris (particles/millileter) and the size of the particles (micron sizes) that are circulating through your system. Allison filters are sized to pass finer particles (approximately 30 microns or smaller)so that the filters won't "load up" in a short amount of time. Anything above 30 microns should be trapped by the filter. Generally, the larger the particle, the less there are of them. Tiny particles (around 4-14 microns in size) are abundant in most systems. These tiny particles generally due little harm the transmission unless they are very hard particles like sand (which shows up as excessive "silicon") in an oil sample.

Bottom Line: All systems are different in the way the collect debris and your duty cycle and location are a big part of what gets picked up through the breather. So, filters are kind of difficult to manage. It can be done but it takes particle count data at a bare minimum to do it. Most folks may not want to take that on."


Wagonmaster2,

I wrote this on the "other" forum to you. But, you may have missed it.

"
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:39 AM   #32
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Wagonmaster2,
Here's the deal. I believe you can run filters longer but you'll need to run oil analysis and it "must" include particle count and should include ISO Cleanliness Code. Oil analysis will tell you all you need to know about the fluid life (provided you're also getting the TAN (Total Acid Number) information. The only thing a typical oil analysis won't tell you is how much debris (particles/millileter) and the size of the particles (micron sizes) that are circulating through your system. Allison filters are sized to pass finer particles (approximately 30 microns or smaller)so that the filters won't "load up" in a short amount of time. Anything above 30 microns should be trapped by the filter. Generally, the larger the particle, the less there are of them. Tiny particles (around 4-14 microns in size) are abundant in most systems. These tiny particles generally due little harm the transmission unless they are very hard particles like sand (which shows up as excessive "silicon") in an oil sample.

Bottom Line: All systems are different in the way the collect debris and your duty cycle and location are a big part of what gets picked up through the breather. So, filters are kind of difficult to manage. It can be done but it takes particle count data at a bare minimum to do it. Most folks may not want to take that on."


Wagonmaster2,

I wrote this on the "other" forum to you. But, you may have missed it.

"
thanks
this brings up another question.
in my other diesel powered vehicle i ran a bypass oil filtration that ran the engine oil through 1 micron filter media,
do you think a supplemental system would gain any thing if we use the allison filtering but also bypassed part of the fluid for further filtration.
i also used oil analysis on that engine and had pretty good oil longevity based on its results.
thank you
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:47 AM   #33
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Wagonmaster2,
Here's the deal. I believe you can run filters longer but you'll need to run oil analysis and it "must" include particle count and should include ISO Cleanliness Code. Oil analysis will tell you all you need to know about the fluid life (provided you're also getting the TAN (Total Acid Number) information. The only thing a typical oil analysis won't tell you is how much debris (particles/millileter) and the size of the particles (micron sizes) that are circulating through your system.

"
What is Allison's position on using oil/fluid analysis to extend service intervals?
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:43 PM   #34
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What is Allison's position on using oil/fluid analysis to extend service intervals?
Route 66,

No problem. Allison has recommended oil/fluid analysis for years. I truly believe it's the only way to go. You've touched on the best kept secret ..... use it properly to safely extend drain intervals until the analysis tells you the oil/fluid is no longer useful. Get the most from your oil/fluid dollar. It's like a "Blood Test for Your RV" !!!!
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:47 PM   #35
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thanks
this brings up another question.
in my other diesel powered vehicle i ran a bypass oil filtration that ran the engine oil through 1 micron filter media,
do you think a supplemental system would gain any thing if we use the allison filtering but also bypassed part of the fluid for further filtration.
i also used oil analysis on that engine and had pretty good oil longevity based on its results.
thank you
Powerboatr,

Just make sure it truly is a bypass filter and does not interrupt flow to the main filter. Other than that, I don't see a problem but the only way to confirm is through oil analysis with particle count. Particle count will tell you if the bypass filter is doing its job or not.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:32 AM   #36
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Hi Tom, thanks for making yourself and your knowledge available for this forum. I have posted under another thread (slow drip) about my leaky seal and and the fact that I just had it fixed for the second time at the GM shop in Parker AZ. I told them to change the fluid and to make sure it was compatible to the new specs. They used Dex 6 which he said was backwards compatible and that was the recommended type. Now after reading more on this forum it appears Dex 6 is a major problem for my 2004 Allison 1000! What do you recommend I do?
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:57 PM   #37
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Hi Tom, thanks for making yourself and your knowledge available for this forum. I have posted under another thread (slow drip) about my leaky seal and and the fact that I just had it fixed for the second time at the GM shop in Parker AZ. I told them to change the fluid and to make sure it was compatible to the new specs. They used Dex 6 which he said was backwards compatible and that was the recommended type. Now after reading more on this forum it appears Dex 6 is a major problem for my 2004 Allison 1000! What do you recommend I do?
MNRVr,

DEXRON-VI would be incompatible with Viton seals used by Allison Transmission in MY 2004 products. Tests showed that the additives used in DEXRON-VI hardened the older (non-DEXRON-VI compatible) Viton seals. This could lead to cracking and leakage at some point .... hard to determine when though. Could be thousands of hours depending mostly on temperature. Is this the output seal (rear end at the output shaft)?

I would check to ensure the correct P/N (newer DEXRON-VI compatible seal) was installed the last time. The transmission S/N break points were released in a service bulletin; I don't have a copy but the service outlet should know to install the newer seal. If you can't find out anything on the actual seal P/N; then, I would have the seal replaced again (if it's leaking badly) and switch to TranSynd or another TES-295 approved fluid. This will eliminate leakage due to seal incompatibility.

Of course, there's always a possibility that this is a mechanical problem like an out of round shaft or a "nicked seal"; however, it would be unlikely that the seal was nicked twice on installation. Have them check that the mating part (output shaft, etc.) is within spec on diameter and roundness. Also, have the technician/mechanic look at the seal after removal to see if he/you can see nicks or if there are burrs or gouges or anything like that on the mating part that could be causing it to continually leak. It may not be a chemical issue.

Hope this helps !!!
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:18 PM   #38
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i know this is not a fluid question, but seeing as you are the most knowledgeable one here about the allison
its being asked on another thread.....the economy mode?????
thanks
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:51 PM   #39
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MNRVr,

DEXRON-VI would be incompatible with Viton seals used by Allison Transmission in MY 2004 products. Tests showed that the additives used in DEXRON-VI hardened the older (non-DEXRON-VI compatible) Viton seals. This could lead to cracking and leakage at some point .... hard to determine when though. Could be thousands of hours depending mostly on temperature. Is this the output seal (rear end at the output shaft)?

I would check to ensure the correct P/N (newer DEXRON-VI compatible seal) was installed the last time. The transmission S/N break points were released in a service bulletin; I don't have a copy but the service outlet should know to install the newer seal. If you can't find out anything on the actual seal P/N; then, I would have the seal replaced again (if it's leaking badly) and switch to TranSynd or another TES-295 approved fluid. This will eliminate leakage due to seal incompatibility.

Of course, there's always a possibility that this is a mechanical problem like an out of round shaft or a "nicked seal"; however, it would be unlikely that the seal was nicked twice on installation. Have them check that the mating part (output shaft, etc.) is within spec on diameter and roundness. Also, have the technician/mechanic look at the seal after removal to see if he/you can see nicks or if there are burrs or gouges or anything like that on the mating part that could be causing it to continually leak. It may not be a chemical issue.

Hope this helps !!!
Thanks for your reply but I need to restate the sequence of events, sorry I didn't include or quote my original info from the "slow drip" thread on this forum.
As far as I know when I bought my MH new in 2004 with the Allison 1000 it was filled with Dex III. I did the filter change at 5000 miles and fluid at 30,000 miles (DexIII). At 65,000 miles, The shift selector shaft seal was leaking so I had it replaced. Now 4 months and 1000 miles later I found the same seal leaking again. So I took it to a GM dealer to have it checked and they replaced the seal again saying it just looked like a bad seal. Hopefully that's it. The real problem is that I had them change the fluid and after I got to the RV park I checked the fluid level and it only showed on the tip. So I checked their invoice to find they only put in 8 quarts and they used Dex VI. After reading about accepted fluids on this forum I found that Dex VI is not compatable with my transmission and I am wondering how much might be in the convertor since it was only a 15 mile drive to the park that I am staying at. And If I drain it and replace with Transyn or Mobil ATF Delvac how many miles before I drain again?

Thanks again
MNRVR
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:56 PM   #40
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i know this is not a fluid question, but seeing as you are the most knowledgeable one here about the allison
its being asked on another thread.....the economy mode?????
thanks
Powerboatr,

Economy Mode changes the "shift schedule" This means the "brains" of the transmission (the Transmission Control Module) or "TCM" goes to a lookup table program and finds a different set of engine speeds (transmission output speeds) to use for shift points. Basically, the transmission shifts at a lower engine speed and also engages the "lockup clutch" at lower engine speeds. It's like shifting a manual transmission at lower speeds to get into a higher gear earlier than normal. The lockup clutch is connected to the torque converter and when it engages, it's just like a manual transmission clutch in that it locks the transmission to the engine. This increases transmission efficiency be avoiding viscous drag and parasitic losses experienced when the transmission is transmitting torque through the torque converter.

On newer transmissions, Allison has taken this a step further by introducing LBSS (Load Based Shift Schedules). This lets the transmission cycle between "Economy Mode" and "Performance Mode" as needed to minimize fuel consumption. It's a "super secret" algorithm that only the Controls Engineers know.

Does this help !!!!
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Old 04-22-2011, 07:14 PM   #41
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Thanks for your reply but I need to restate the sequence of events, sorry I didn't include or quote my original info from the "slow drip" thread on this forum.
As far as I know when I bought my MH new in 2004 with the Allison 1000 it was filled with Dex III. I did the filter change at 5000 miles and fluid at 30,000 miles (DexIII). At 65,000 miles, The shift selector shaft seal was leaking so I had it replaced. Now 4 months and 1000 miles later I found the same seal leaking again. So I took it to a GM dealer to have it checked and they replaced the seal again saying it just looked like a bad seal. Hopefully that's it. The real problem is that I had them change the fluid and after I got to the RV park I checked the fluid level and it only showed on the tip. So I checked their invoice to find they only put in 8 quarts and they used Dex VI. After reading about accepted fluids on this forum I found that Dex VI is not compatable with my transmission and I am wondering how much might be in the convertor since it was only a 15 mile drive to the park that I am staying at. And If I drain it and replace with Transyn or Mobil ATF Delvac how many miles before I drain again?

Thanks again
MNRVR
OK .... got it. First, it would have had DEXRON-IIIH in 2004 from the factory. Now, since the shift selector shaft seal leaked at 65,000 miles with DEXRON-IIIH and now again with a new seal after only 1000 miles on DEXRON-VI, I'm thinking it's unlikely that it's a fluid problem since it leaked with both fluids and they said it looked like a bad seal. I could be wrong but I'd be looking at the selector shaft for a nick or burr. I don't remember whether the seal seals on the OD or the ID. If it seals on the OD, then I'd check the housing bore for a nick or burr. It would be hard to believe the DEXRON-VI caused the seal to leak at 1000 miles based on my knowledge. The torque converter would have been totally mixed with the residual DEXRON-IIIH and the DEXRON-VI within a few minutes so the mix is all through the system and cannot be fixed without a double drain and refill. I would switch it to TranSynd or the Mobil DELVAC Synthetic ATF (TES-295) and be done with it. You'll be good for 150,000 miles and just need to change filters on schedule.

I think that answers everything. Once again, I don't think the leaky seal is due to the DEXRON-VI but I'd get it out of there as soon as possible. Sounds like Allison needs to educate service facilities on their fluid recommendations.

PS: If I could come up with a TranSynd replacement that would do 100,000 miles and cost maybe $10/gallon less, would IRV2 members be interested? This is not an advertisement, just a notion I'd like to float out to the forums. It wouldn't necessarily be "blessed" by Allison, but it would have my name backing up the quality.

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Old 04-22-2011, 07:36 PM   #42
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Thanks for the reply. I will dump the Dex where I am sitting and add the proper fluid.
I talked to the GM service manager that used the Dex 6 and he was still quite adamant about the fact the he looked it up and believes he is correct. I told him I was in contact with the guy that wrote the spec and to "google" allison 1000-Dextron VI-compatable and I will talk to him tomorrow about a refund for the fluid at the very least. As far as the seal goes, I asked them to check for nicks and burs to rule that out. So I will keep an eye on it and hope for the best.
As far as your question about a less expensive alternative to current cost of Transynd...... I'm all ears! The really tuff part of trying to comply to the new specs is locating the proper fluid especially in quantities of less than 5 gallons!!!!

Thanks again,
Pete
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