Former Allison Transmission Fluids Engineer

[Winterschlos]

I have a Model 4000 MH with a 600 Hp Cummins. I noticed recently that it was apparently overfilled by the previous owner. (By overfilled I am talking about being half way up the dip stick). Is this a problem? Do I need to drain the transmission fluid down to the proper level? What is the damage if any to the transmission to leave it as is?

Winterschlos

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by Winterschlos

I have a Model 4000 MH with a 600 Hp Cummins. I noticed recently that it was apparently overfilled by the previous owner. (By overfilled I am talking about being half way up the dip stick). Is this a problem? Do I need to drain the transmission fluid down to the proper level? What is the damage if any to the transmission to leave it as is?



Winterschlos

The dip stick is not a reliable measure. Use the shift pad. Do the following:
1. Engine running & transmission temp above 140.
2. Brake set.
3. Transmission in N.
4. Press and release both up & down arrow buttons at the same time.
5. The display may start a countdown ending with a message flashed.
O L O K is oil ok
O L L 3 is oil is 3 quarts low.
O L H 3 is oil is 3 quarts high.
Press N to get out of program.

Your coach is newer & the message may be somewhat different but you get the idea.

Yes, if over one quart high, I would remove some.

[docj]

Originally Posted by Steve Ownby

The dip stick is not a reliable measure. Use the shift pad. Do the following:
1. Engine running & transmission temp above 140.
2. Brake set.
3. Transmission in N.
4. Press and release both up & down arrow buttons at the same time.
5. The display may start a countdown ending with a message flashed.
O L O K is oil ok
O L L 3 is oil is 3 quarts low.
O L H 3 is oil is 3 quarts high.
Press N to get out of program.

One thing that can be confusing is that if the transmission is not yet warm enough to provide a reading, you may see an indication that looks like:

O L - # (where # is a number)

This might cause you to think that the minus sign means that it is low; it does not. The dash (minus) simply means that the transmission is not ready to be read.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by Winterschlos

I have a Model 4000 MH with a 600 Hp Cummins. I noticed recently that it was apparently overfilled by the previous owner. (By overfilled I am talking about being half way up the dip stick). Is this a problem? Do I need to drain the transmission fluid down to the proper level? What is the damage if any to the transmission to leave it as is?

Winterschlos

If that is when the fluid is cold... I would make sure you are on a level surface (or use your jacks to get it there) and check again. Still...if it is that high, I doubt being level has anything to do with it being over filled.

If that is when the fluid has warmed to operational temps then it isn't quite as bad. I would still look for a way to get the levels lower.

That being said, I would cross check that with the procedures that DocJ and Steve Ownby gave you. Why? I once heard of an owner that said they had the wrong dipstick that gave out a bad reading. I can't verify that story personally but stranger things have happened.

Suggestion...if you find that you are a few quarts overfilled you might consider changing your transmission filters if they are near the end of the life cycle. That could be a useful way to reduce the fluid volume.

Good Luck!

[hzjcm8]

Originally Posted by Winterschlos

I have a Model 4000 MH with a 600 Hp Cummins. I noticed recently that it was apparently overfilled by the previous owner. (By overfilled I am talking about being half way up the dip stick). Is this a problem? Do I need to drain the transmission fluid down to the proper level? What is the damage if any to the transmission to leave it as is?

Winterschlos

Winterschlos,
The transmission does not like an overfill condition. If the fluid is too high in the sump, the rotating clutch housing will churn the oil like a blender since it's turning at engine speed. Use the dipstick, as an initial indicator, and drain it down to either the COLD band (when it's cool) or the HOT band (when it's at operating temperature) and double check it with the oil level sensor reading using the shift pad.

In my opinion, there's little chance that it hurt the transmission but it will cause a mess (and possible fire hazard) if it belches or spits out the fill tube. It's also possible to foam it so badly that it gets air in the clutches which will cause some squirrelly shifts until it works out of the clutches.

Are you doing oil analysis on the transmission? I recommend it once a year.

[Winterschlos]

Not yet but will be. Worked with a QC guy from the steel industry who was responsible for maintaining steel rollers etc. If critical rollers seized up it cost the mill millions in down time and lost materials. He used oil analysis extensively to be proactive in his work.

Thanks for your comments on this. Just didn't know if this would have created any serious problems in the transmission.

[CoachStreamr]

Originally Posted by Steve Ownby

The dip stick is not a reliable measure. Use the shift pad. Do the following:
1. Engine running & transmission temp above 140.
2. Brake set.
3. Transmission in N.
4. Press and release both up & down arrow buttons at the same time.
5. The display may start a countdown ending with a message flashed.
O L O K is oil ok
O L L 3 is oil is 3 quarts low.
O L H 3 is oil is 3 quarts high.
Press N to get out of program.

Your coach is newer & the message may be somewhat different but you get the idea.

Yes, if over one quart high, I would remove some.

Should this procedure work on our 1995 MD3060 w/WTEC II?



.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by CoachStreamr

Should this procedure work on our 1995 MD3060 w/WTEC II?



.

YES

[msturtz]

What about an 2100 MH?

[CoachStreamr]

Originally Posted by CoachStreamr

Should this procedure work on our 1995 MD3060 w/WTEC II?



.

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

YES

I thought I read in the Allison manual in our Coach about the transmission has to be equipped with an oil level sensor, sounded like that was optional. Did all MD3060 come with the oil level sensor?


Also found a link for a Allison Manual for this and diagnostic codes (3000/4000 series) here: https://www.mixerandplantparts.com/v...ns%20codes.pdf

.

[MarkK]

Hi Tom.

Checking in on my samples. If I'm reading it right, no issues, just monitor. Can you confirm Transynd was my original fluid? Sent to the Utah location, 3466 original, 3467 baseline after servicing.

Thanks.

[hzjcm8]

Originally Posted by MarkK

Hi Tom.

Checking in on my samples. If I'm reading it right, no issues, just monitor. Can you confirm Transynd was my original fluid? Sent to the Utah location, 3466 original, 3467 baseline after servicing.

Thanks.

Mark,

It is, and was, indeed Castrol TranSynd as indicated by the viscosity and FTIR Oxidation values. The fluid and transmission are in great shape. Check it annually. The fluid will remain stable for many miles and calendar months but we want to ensure that contaminants don't disrupt the system. That's the purpose of the annual check ..... not that the fluid will go bad, we just want to check for the outside chance you might have a cooler circuit leak.

Annual analysis will keep you as reliable as possible and virtually worry free.

[docj]

Hi Tom:

A couple of months ago I became aware of the fact that the shop that had drained and refilled my Transynd had overfilled the Allison by ~4 quarts according to the control pad. Although my local Allison shop (Stewart and Stephenson) said that the transmission would eventually blow the excess out, I decided to remove it by hand pump. I drained a full gallon out and I've been amazed what an improvement it has made. My 4000 transmission now runs a lot cooler, at a rock solid 187-189 and hasn't gotten above 192 even momentarily even in 100 degree weather. Because the tranny is running cooler, the CAT seems to be running cooler also since the cooling system doesn't have to dispose of as much heat.

Lastly, although I can't quantify it, the shifts seem to be smoother, especially the 6th to 4th downshift when the Jake brake kicks in.

I don't know how much of this is real or the figment of my imagination, but the temperature is definitely running cooler which I know is a good sign!

[Sundancer268]

Tom, any way to add the Oil Level Sensor to my MD-3060 World II transmission? I have the deep 4" sump and I understand it was an option for the deep sump and Spartan apparently did not specify it on my chassis. Thanks, Ed