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Old 12-14-2018, 01:40 PM   #1
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Shift pad stays lit after key turned off

I seem to have an electrical problem....When u turn the key on all lights come on normal as they should for 5 seconds,,,then one of the N lights go out and beeps (engine will still start)..turn ignition off and the keypad stays lit for a bit before shutting down...turn key back on,,,and only one N lights up...turn key off again and keypad shuts down properly,,,,turn key back on and all is well...thought is was just a ground problem but both positive and negative wires from battery read good....had ecm checked @allison shop and it checked good....checked all relays and fuses...still think its a bad ground but only ground is directly from battery.
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:16 PM   #2
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unplugged & cleaned ecm connectors ,,VIM connectors,,,trans conn. ,,,tps conn.,,,,harness connection along the frame,,,have code 22 16 which is output speed sensor & 24 23 which is hot sump....code 22 16 is happening cuz of the keypad not shutting down correctly (per allison manual) as for code 24 23 the trans is not getting hot and works good...any other ground wires that Im missing ? thanks for ur attention guys,,,,
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Old 12-14-2018, 06:36 PM   #3
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Does the TCM stay lit indefinitely after you turn the key off, or does it eventually go out?

Do you have a wiring schematic for the tranny? If you need one, PM me and I can send it to you. Switched ignition power is supplied to the VIM at terminal C1. I believe this is what "wakes up" the TCM. (main power to the TCM comes directly to the VIM from the battery at J1/J2) I would check to make sure the wire feeding this terminal (C1) does NOT have current when the key is turned off. If it does, then you have a wiring problem in the dash somewhere.

If the wire feeding C1 is dead when the ignition is off, and the TCM is still lit, it could be that the TCM has failed internally - whatever circuitry inside of it that tells it to "wake up" is stuck in the "on" position.

FYI... I'm not an expert, or even all that knowledgeable... just have a little time under my belt tracking down wiring issues with the tranny.

-cheers
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:13 PM   #4
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Evening Plker,,,thanks for the come back..Yes I have followed most of ur threads ,,glad u got urs figured out..The touch pad does turn off in 3-10 seconds (different each time)..I have the troubleshoot manual from allison downloaded already,thanks...If the pad turns off when the ignition turns off it will work on the next cycle...Already replaced the ignition switch...Will check C1 on the 30 plug @ vim for power....I did unplug the harness to the dash but no change... Its like a relay is not staying on,,,,thanks again for ur attention.
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:41 AM   #5
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I keep a little notebook that I use as a log for recording issues, maintenance, etc. on the RV. I didn't remember it when I read your post, but I had almost the exact thing happen to our rig that you are experiencing a while back. I would turn the key off, and the TCM would stay lit. At the time, there was an issue with the isolator relay that ties in the house batteries after the engine is running. It wasn't working automatically because of corroded connections at the relay, so I was driving around with the manual tie-in switch rigged on the dash to keep the house batteries charged. If I didn't untie that connection before shutting the ignition off, the TCM would stay on and then flash on and off for quite a while before shutting down. As soon as I would remove the rig from the switch, it would shut down.


Honestly, I still haven't corrected what appears to be feedback in this circuit. Once I fixed the connections at the isolator relay, i didn't have to tie the house batteries in any more by rigging the switch on the dash... but if I DO rig that switch, the TCM stays lit after shutting of the ignition. I'm wondering if I just have a bad isolator relay... and possibly maybe so do you? Just a thought...

I also notice that the after I shut the ignition off, WITHOUT the switch rigged, the TCM stays lit for just a second or two after after the key is off. Maybe the isolator relay takes a second to switch off after it loses 14 volts from the alternator... which makes sense because as long as the house batteries are tied into the chassis battery, the TCM will stay lit after a shut down.

Wiring is sometimes difficult to track down for sure. Especially when all you have is a bundle of wires and no chassis wiring schematic.


-cheers
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:50 PM   #6
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G morning,,,,thanks again for the reply...Been tracing this a couple weeks now...I dont have the switch on this rv,,,but did have to replace the relay/isolator and rebuilt the alternator as it wasn't powering up the relay/isolator & splked 16+ volts 3x in 20 mile trip...Well even with schematics it can be difficult cuz they are generic and not specifically how urs is wired..Im gonna re-chase the igniton feed to the vim and the ignition sense from vim to the pad...Be a couple days ....Thanks again for the reply,,I'll keep u updated,,,,,Cheers
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:21 AM   #7
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update

Well I checked and i have power going in VIM and power from VIM to touchpad...Have power on the ignition sense wire when key is turned on....If I unplug the output speed sensor @ the tailshaft on tranny it works everytime but I assume It wont shift gears with this sensor unplugged,,,Am I right? Also notice when I hook up the power wire to the battery I get a spark,,,,still get the spark with the sensor unplugged also,,,,Ran a new twisted pair of wires from the output speed sensor to the shift pad thinking there was cross talk going on but I have the same results..
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:05 PM   #8
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Checked the sending wires @ the output speed sensor end with continuity tester & dont have good continuity,, but have good continuity when checked from the touchpad end of wires....with key turned on I have 1.5 volts on 1 wire and 2 volts on the other wire @ the sensor..mmm....Also the speedometer jumps up when when key is turned on as if it a shot with a splke of power ...Still think its the ECU although I had it tested..
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Old 12-17-2018, 05:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasman98001 View Post
unplugged & cleaned ecm connectors ,,VIM connectors,,,trans conn. ,,,tps conn.,,,,harness connection along the frame,,,have code 22 16 which is output speed sensor & 24 23 which is hot sump....code 22 16 is happening cuz of the keypad not shutting down correctly (per allison manual) as for code 24 23 the trans is not getting hot and works good...any other ground wires that Im missing ? thanks for ur attention guys,,,,


Is there anything special about the ECU connectors as far as demating goes? Also what did you use for the contact cleaner?
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Old 12-19-2018, 03:33 AM   #10
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Is there anything special about the ECU connectors as far as demating goes? Also what did you use for the contact cleaner?
This stuff is the best: DeoxIT D100. It's very expensive, but it's more than just a basic contact cleaner. I've used it all over the RV on all sorts of connectors. There are some connectors that don't appear to have any oxidation on them, but they just don't work... till you spray this stuff on them and brush it around a little bit.

For REALLY badly corroded connections, I go straight to hydrochloric acid - toilette bowl cleaner. I only use this for worst case scenarios. This can remove certain types of plating on some connectors, but if the connection is really bad, the plating is gone anyways. Procedure:
  • Dip the connector in the acid for a few seconds
  • Brush it if necessary,
  • Spray it liberally with water to rinse,
  • Air blast to dry,
  • Spray the DeoxIT on to protect and lubricate.
This works really well... just make sure you rinse the acid off the connector completely.

Glasman, I think that the spark is probably normal when hooking up the main power? It sure sounds like the output sensor is bad? I believe the output sensor and the input sensor are identical. You could swap the sensors out, and see if you get the same results when you unplug the output sensor. This might indicate whether it's a wiring issue, or a sensor issue?

-cheers
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