RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > POWER TRAIN GARAGE FORUMS > Allison Transmission Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-19-2018, 08:08 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Andy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 117
Transmission Codes on MD 3060. Monitor reads 5

My 1997 Monaco 40ft motorcoach. 140K miles. Transynd fluid, shifts fine. Allison MD 3060. Trans tag reads 6510109330 29524978
97C14
MD3060

It all started roughly around 11 to 12 months ago, as I was driving north on 95 from Daytona to NY, and right around 1 hour prior to Savanna it dropped from 6th to 5th and the warning light came on the dash with the alarm sound and illuminated "Do not Shift". my monitors left window showed no reading when this happened and the right window showed "5". The trans temp started to climb from 165ish to 195ish. I am still plagued to this date with the ongoing issue. You ask "why haven't I fixed this, after all this time"? Well, to be honest, and in the first grouping of months thereafter it started, it reared it's ugly head not that often, but rest assure I would definitely experience it once over an 8 to 10 hour ride. Now this problem is becoming more frequent, as it can happen 4 to 5 times in the first 45 minutes of driving, and then only occur 1 or two times over the next 4 to 6 hours. It is progressively getting worse each time I take it out. The last time I took it out, as I usually can reset it by shutting the key off, waiting a minute or two, then turning the key back on, although on this last trip after the 3rd reset I had to kill the main power switches at the back because it wasn't resetting with the key "off then on" attempt. Back when it first started to occur, it only did this issue when cruising in 6th. Now it does it in 4th, 5th or 6th gear. Problem progressively getting worse.
Codes are: D1 57-44, D2 57-88, D3 57-66, D4 no code, D5 no code.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but please only chime in, if you had a very similar issue, and/or you are very proficient in trouble shooting Allison issues. Thank you.
__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
__________________

__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
Andy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-19-2018, 04:07 PM   #2
Member
 
Turbodoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 53
Do not shift

I believe this indicates either a failed range verification speed sensor ratio test or a failed neutral verification speed sensor ratio test. The range ratio test occurs after a shift and determines if a clutch has lost torque carrying capability. If the output speed is above a programmed output speed for a range, but the correct speed sensor ratio is not present, the DO NOT SHIFT response is commanded and a code is logged.

Go to allisontransmission.com and find the nearest service center to you.
__________________

__________________
Larry and Susie Barry
06 Tiffin Zephyr 45 QSZ
NV5I
Turbodoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2018, 09:09 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 374
I believe you have a WTEC II control system on this coach. Main code 57 indicates a C3 pressure switch is on when it should not be. 57-44 is C3 switch on in fourth gear. 57-88 is C3 switch on in neutral. 57-66 is C3 on in 6th gear.
Most likely you simply have a failed C3 pressure switch.
It is possible there is something sticking in the valve body that is causing pressure to get to C3 clutch when it should not. I'd almost bet a ham sandwich and a Coke it's simply a matter of changing the C3 pressure switch.


Maybe Allisonman will get a chance to chime in. He's pretty darn good at this stuff.
dbarton291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2018, 06:15 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Andy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 117
The advice is much appreciated, and just to let all know, I have spoken with numerous Allison techs, and so far here is the information that I feel is valid, or of which I concur with.

In the following order of the 3 possibilities:

*The first was a bad or intermittent signal ground (C3 pressure switch circuit) and it was advised that I look closely at the harness and it's connectors, as it was explained to me, that the coach manufacture is responsible for making the wiring up from the TCM to the Transmission (40+ foot run), and that Allison provides the connectors at the TCM and at the transmission. Please note this paragraph above because I will elaborate on an electrical issue which had me stumped for 4 days, and I finally found it (see last paragraph at bottom).

The second, exactly as mentioned by dbarton, a C3 pressure switch inside the unit.

The third, TCM.

It was advised that if I want to rule out the harness, then I could simply make a run of two wires from the trans connector to the TCM connector. Those two wires are X at the trans which would be 28 at the TCM, and W at the trans which would be 27 at the TCM. W is the signal ground and X is the power.

Ok, here is why I am believing that it could be in the harness, and what I am about to tell you, has nothing to do with this issue at hand, but all to do with the quality control when my coach was built and i'm not sure of how many others are of the same. I had an intermittent "no crank" in my coach. Sometimes the engine would crank and sometimes it wouldn't when the key is in the momentary position which allows the engine to crank over. I chased this devil for 4 days and just when I was about to throw the towel in and bypass, I found it. I went to the back of the coach, after probing and ohming numerous wires and switches, and pulled back the plastic sheathing that led up to the service start box, of which serves a purpose so a technician can start the engine from the rear, as it has a momentary switch and a toggle. Momentary to start and toggle to change power from front to back so you can crank it wherever your choice would be, front or back.......... and 14 inches up in that harness that came into the back of the start service box, I find 7 plastic barrels. Really Monaco? This is how you splice wires together? They all where oxidized, frail and broken, some dangling in the loom and some somewhat together. I did the repair correctly and not an issue since. I have this weird suspicion that when I start to trace out the trans wires from the trans forward, I might find the same half ass connections made with cheap 40 cent crimp electrical barrels.

The reason as to me questioning further, is that the Allison tech I got the most logical response from, is very young and has only been with Allison for two years. He was very pleasant and professional. All the help I can get is greatly appreciated, so I thank you in advance.

Quote:
Maybe Allisonman will get a chance to chime in. He's pretty darn good at this stuff.
Yes, I would be interested in hearing what he has to say. The clock is ticking away, as I made plans to take my kids to Cedar Point in a week and a half. That's a 8 hour drive for me, and our reservations are at the rv park inside Cedar.
__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
Andy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 05:46 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 374
Oh yeah. It could certainly be the harness. If there's a short in the right place, the TCM could think the C3 pressure switch is on when it's not supposed to be.
dbarton291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 05:28 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Andy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 117
Today's progress:

Re-confirmed this morning with one more master Allison tech, the probability of "the harness" as opposed to the C3 pressure switch or ECU, it was highly suggested once again that the issue most likely is in the harness, so with that understanding, I went ahead and disconnected the bulk connector where it meets the transmission pig tail in preparation to ohm the harness from front to back. Front being at the ECU connector. I removed both connectors from the ECU and located pin 27 and 28, as well as pin X and w at the connector at the end of the harness bulkhead. I looped/jumped the X and W with a wire to loop the circuit in the harness. Now it was time to check for ohms. Manufacture suggested is not to exceed 1 to 2 ohms. Well, when check I got 7.3-7.4 ohms. Ok, I am onto something because that is just wrong. I verified that the ECU connector was good by probing into the wire, and both the 27 and 28 terminal probed fine through the connector its self. Now it was time to find out which of the two wires has an issue, so I proceeded to take the loop wire out and made 50 feet of wire for my ohm meter. I first check 27 at front with W at back. Open circuit, as the ohm meter didn't even register at all. I then checked 28 with X, and once again another open circuit, as the ohm meter did not register.

Tomorrow at 7am I will make my way from the front of the harness to the 3 inch i.d. metal tube, of which runs for about 20 feet through the coach, of which would make for a beautiful place for a little critter to hang out on, and have breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I will keep you posted as I march on.
__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
Andy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 06:12 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Andy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 117
Assistance



__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
Andy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 06:14 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 374
Sounds like you're well on your way. Just some jerk input. While you have the harness disconnected from the transmission, it would be an easy check to put the ohm meter across the C3 pressure switch circuit on the transmission connector to make sure that circuit is open and has an infinite ohm reading. That will help confirm everything in the trans is OK and reinforce your search on the chassis harness. If you get a continuity reading at the transmission that would indicate the C3 pressure switch circuit is closed while the engine is not running. That would point to internal harness short or a stuck C3 pressure switch.
dbarton291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 06:24 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Andy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 117
Quote:
Sounds like you're well on your way. Just some jerk input. While you have the harness disconnected from the transmission, it would be an easy check to put the ohm meter across the C3 pressure switch circuit on the transmission connector to make sure that circuit is open and has an infinite ohm reading.
Yes, I plan to do that as well, but what is puzzling me, is that in the event that more then two wires are broken, of which I feel are, from being knawed on, or whatever, then how many more wires can be broken in the harness and yet the transmission still function. The motorhome still shifts fine 1,2,3,4,5 and 6, and the trans fluid temp stays nice and cool always at around 165ish, unless the "do not shift" light illuminates and then indicates 5 on the monitor, at which point climbs the fluid temp to 195-200.
__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
Andy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 06:36 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Andy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 117
Also, in the back of my mind has me questioning, "am I probing the right connector at the ecu"? There are two connectors, of which both have the same numbers on them. The way I determined to probe one vs the other, was because the other connector doesn't have a wire at spot 27, but it does have a wire at 28, The back of 27 has a blue rubber type of small plug. The connector that I am working with, and ohming, does have a wire at 27 and one at 28.
__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
Andy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 06:45 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 374
The trouble codes you posted all point to the C3 pressure switch or its wiring. There are no codes pointing to anything else. If there were a bunch of other circuits with problems, I would expect trouble codes indicating other circuit faults, which you don't have.

When the codes set for the C3 stuck on, the transmission defaults to a gear and the lockup clutch is disabled. The lockup clutch being disabled is probably why the temperature climbs. The vehicle is being propelled by the vortex flow of the fluid in the torque converter rather than the mechanical connection of the lockup clutch.
Checking the chassis harness for physical damage, open circuits, shorts between wires and shorts to ground is still a good thing to do because of what you've found elsewhere in the coach. But, the codes all point to the C3 pressure switch or its circuit only.
So anyway, I'd concentrate on what the TCM is telling you. I have a problem and I see the the C3 clutch is on when it should not be because this switch is giving me zero or near zero ohms resistance when I am expecting no continuity. Just some more jerk input.
dbarton291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 06:47 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M View Post
Also, in the back of my mind has me questioning, "am I probing the right connector at the ecu"? There are two connectors, of which both have the same numbers on them. The way I determined to probe one vs the other, was because the other connector doesn't have a wire at spot 27, but it does have a wire at 28, The back of 27 has a blue rubber type of small plug. The connector that I am working with, and ohming, does have a wire at 27 and one at 28.
I'll have to check that when I'm at work tomorrow. I have a troubleshooting book there and can double check that for you when I get time. One connector is blue and one is black correct?
dbarton291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 07:05 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Andy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 117
No, take a look at my pic, the connectors are identical in color and shape, as they are both black.
__________________
1997 39' Monaco Dynasty 325hp
Andy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2018, 07:06 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 374
The one thing that is sticking in my mind about this one is what if the C3 switch is intermittent or sticky? I've seen that before. I'd hate to think you make all these wiring checks and find nothing. Then when driving the coach it keeps happening. That's indicative of a sticky switch. In that case, I'd just replace the switch or have it replaced. Dropping the control module can be a bit of a bear to do.
__________________

dbarton291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
monitor, transmission



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Occurring issue. "Do not Shift" . Monitor reads 5 Andy M Allison Transmission Forum 10 08-28-2018 08:46 PM
Newmar 2002 Dutch Star Allison 3060 transmission shuttering workamper306 Newmar Owner's Forum 10 12-11-2017 06:24 AM
Allison 3060 Transmission Maintenence Question GaDawgFan Allison Transmission Forum 7 09-28-2017 01:44 PM
Allison transmission 3060 problems htripp Allison Transmission Forum 11 07-26-2015 11:19 AM
8.3 Cummins tach reads 0 'til rev then reads 2000 only lkghudson Freightliner Motorhome Chassis Forum 3 11-22-2014 10:14 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.