What are true benefits of change to Transynd?

[FIRE UP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob213 Our Allison dealer sells it for $32.00 a gallon. If you can lay on your back and unscrew the drain plug you could save $218. Not sure about the filters for a 3000, but I don't believe the word "flush" and Allison go together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgray Mine too! That's why I suggested he shop around. Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIX FIRE UP, I too suggest you shop a little for the fluid. To my knowledge Allison does NOT recommend flushing the trans. They do recommend to drain fluid (about 17 qts on a 3000 series) change filters (6" main and lube) and refill with TES 295 spec fluid. Drive 25K miles or ??? months and change the filters and fluid again. At that point Allison considers the fluid to be 100% TES 295 spec fluid. The filters are very easy to change. They can be bought in a kit with both filters and o-rings......I think the kit is about $38. Shope at a truck dealer rather than a RV shop. Others have advised about fluid prices. To change the fluid find a plastic oil drum and cut off the bottom 8" of it to make a pan. Remove the drain plug and drain the fluid. Each filter is behind an easily accessible plate held by 5 (or 6) bolts and is clearly labeled "main" and "lube". Remove the cover plate and filter and insert a new one. Total coast will be less than $200. See Allison website for more detail if you need it. If you can read this email and understand it then you can change your own fluid and filters. A caveman could do it.

Well Sir, calling Freightliner was my first attempt at locating Transynd. I was going to go on the hunt even before I called them. But, as you and many have stated, it most assuredly can be had for a less price than at F/L. And, as stated earlier, I have done 99.9% of my own work over the years so, I'm certainly up to the task of a "SIMPLE" style oil change, if that's in fact, all that's done for a Dexron to Transynd oil change. And yes, I am a cave man, you have to be in order to run into burning buildings when all others are running out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perry White You can buy it all day long on E-Bay for $125/5gal pail.

Perry,
Well Sir, can you send me the link for that price and place of purchase? When I did my search on ebay, several times, the only deal I came up with was one place that is selling it for: $169.00 for 5 gallons. That equates to $34.00 per gallon, yours is $25.00 per gallon. Now, based on what I was quoted from the local Freightliner store, at $50.00 per gallon total, out the door, yours is a serious price difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D Sorry that offended you!! What I wrote is right out of the Allison specs for the 1000, 2000, 2500, 3000 and 4000 trans (and others) "tech tips": HERE: NEVER ASSUME that someone did the job correctly unless you did it yourself, as I do! It's not hard to do, but it is kind of expensive due to the amount of what seems to be perfectly good fluid that must be thrown out.

Mr D,
No offence taken, I too like doing things myself in order to do at least two things. One, I know it's done right, and, two, I ALWAYS learn something when I'm working on my own stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurtleKent Mike Cody at Camp Freightliner IS recommending a flush, or a quick second change, when going from Dexron to Transynd. For that reason I sent a trans fluid sample out for analysis prior to changing. They were relatively sure I had Transynd, so for a $20 analysis I learned I don't need to do a second change.

Now this is where things always get fuzzy for me. I'm quoting folks here that say Allison does not recommend a "flush", only a drain. And then, here comes an authority from Freightliner that says "Yes, DO FLUSH". I'm way on the bottom of the totem pole here folks and just want the job done right for a very expensive transmission. And, based on the writings here, I'm about to pull the plug (so to speak) and do a change over from Dexron to Transynd by doing it myself but, here's a person who, quotes a F/L rep, who, recommends a flush. And, I can't do that. Hmmmmm.
Scott

[Perry White]

If it was mine, I'd just order a set of filters and fluid and drain it and replace the filters. Run it for a year and maybe drain and refill. Check the dates on the filters you take out. Maybe it has already been changed over. You could take a sample and wait for it to come back. Mine is a 4000 series and I drained out 36 quarts so it still had a gallon left in it out of 10.( It was Trans from the start. ) I don't think I would flush it. I think the only reason to flush is to get the fluid that is left in the converter out.

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE UP .....I too like doing things myself in order to do at least two things. One, I know it's done right, and, two, I ALWAYS learn something when I'm working on my own stuff....

FIRE UP you really got one on me dude! Doing it myself - me, myself, and I - can not always say that "we" did it "right" (sure do try to!) BUT I can definitively say I know exactly what was done!!! (Which turns out to be pretty valuable info.)

You betcha on learning when you DIY... Not just learning how to do something but also learning when you see something that might become a future problem so it can be fixed on your schedule and not on the side of the road schedule!

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE UP ...I'm about to pull the plug (so to speak) and do a change over from Dexron to Transynd by doing it myself but....

Natural to be intimidated by these beasts. My first filter change on a 4000 was certainly so... Once I did it I had to chuckle - why did I get all worked up for what turned out to be a trivial job? It was as easy as an engine oil change - the hardest part is dealing with that volume of fluid! (Make sure you get the right filters - Allison does use different sump sizes. Also the "old" Allison Gold filters have been superseded by the "new" (4-5 years ago) Allison "high capacity" filters.)

Allison makes the tranny and I'd suggest that their opinion is the top of the pecking order. Freightliner services many thing as well as Allison - in volume - and has their "methods" designed to deal with the work load (and hopefully meet spec).

There are also a myriad of methods/machines/tools all grouped under the loose term "flush" so without knowing exactly what the tool means by "flush" and what Allison means by "do not flush" or if the tech properly followed procedure it is impossible to compare - or frankly, even understand. DIY here I come!

[hzjcm8]

Fellas,

I was out a few days because my daughter in law had to go to the hospital. She was having contractions 2 months early ..... not good. So, I apologize if I didn't get to some questions. It's difficult to keep up sometimes.

Hey, I know .... I'll just charge $0.99 per question; that ought to keep it down. Just kidding !!!

So, anyway, with respect to changing over to TranSynd. Doesn't matter what the Freightliner guy says ... Allison Engineering doesn't recommend it. Too many things could go wrong and you could burn up the pump if you're not careful. Best way is to do a double drain and refill as follows:

• Drain fluid
• Refill with TranSynd
• Drive it around for 30 minutes
• Drain it again
• Change the filters
• Refill with TranSynd

Don't wait for 6 months or X amount of miles. It doesn't make sense to wait since what remains of the old fluid will continue to degrade and have an affect of the overall quality of the first change. Just do it, pay the money, and be done with it for many many miles.

Now, with respect to TranSynd and why it's the best. It does not degrade over very long periods of time (period). DEXRON-IIIH fluids were infamous for losing viscosity which led to bushing wear. TranSynd will "never" lose its viscosity. Oxidation life is significantly improved over DEXRON-IIIH. The DEXRON-IIIH oxidation test was 300 hours. The TES-295 (TranSynd) test is 600 hours and since oils degrade exponentially, the affect gives a much much longer oxidation life (maybe as much as 5-10 times). Friction retention is improved with TranSynd (or other TES-295 products) since the oxidation life is so good. Oxidation leads to formation of polarized molecules that stick to hot surfaces and change friction so the more stable TES-295 fluids have improved friction stability. Cold temperature is no comparison. TES-295 fluids remain pumpable and pourable at below -40F (-40C) which is well below what you'd ever need in the US and Canada.

You can take my word for it that the data exists to prove all that I've stated here.

Hope this helps !!!

PS: For further questions, let's keep it to one thread because I don't always monitor the other threads and, like I said, it's difficult to keep up since I also run a business on a daily basis.

[FIRE UP]

Tom,
OUTSTANDING ANSWER! It's phenomenally pleasant to get such "privy" information so that us, here on the site, can make informed decisions on issues concerning one of the most expensive parts on our coaches, the TRANSMISSION! When the boys defined a change procedure with that much time frame in between the changes, I was a bit puzzled. But I was willing to go along with it because I know no better.

But, your refinement of the procedure, certainly makes a bit more sense to me. I certainly don't want to discount any advice that's been given me by the other nice folks here, it's all appreciated. I already have a drain pan that will hold all the fluid, around 17 quarts as I understand, so that's taken care of. Now, all I have to do is acquire the Transynd.

Tom, one more question, what does "TES" stand for? Could it be: Technical Engineering Specification?

Thank you again for your time and expertise. Very, very much appreciated.
Scott

[hzjcm8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE UP Tom, OUTSTANDING ANSWER! It's phenomenally pleasant to get such "privy" information so that us, here on the site, can make informed decisions on issues concerning one of the most expensive parts on our coaches, the TRANSMISSION! When the boys defined a change procedure with that much time frame in between the changes, I was a bit puzzled. But I was willing to go along with it because I know no better. But, your refinement of the procedure, certainly makes a bit more sense to me. I certainly don't want to discount any advice that's been given me by the other nice folks here, it's all appreciated. I already have a drain pan that will hold all the fluid, around 17 quarts as I understand, so that's taken care of. Now, all I have to do is acquire the Transynd. Tom, one more question, what does "TES" stand for? Could it be: Technical Engineering Specification? Thank you again for your time and expertise. Very, very much appreciated. Scott

Scott,

TES = Transmission Engineering Specification. So, you were close .... but no cigar !!!

[hzjcm8]

All,

So we don't have too many threads going on Allison fluids and fluid changes, let's all go back to the original thread which can be found at http://www.irv2.com/forums/f125/former-allison-transmission-fluids-engineer-89293-10.html.

All questions for me should be listed there so I don't miss any.

Thanks !!!!

[FIRE UP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hzjcm8 Fellas, I was out a few days because my daughter in law had to go to the hospital. She was having contractions 2 months early ..... not good. So, I apologize if I didn't get to some questions. It's difficult to keep up sometimes. Hey, I know .... I'll just charge $0.99 per question; that ought to keep it down. Just kidding !!! So, anyway, with respect to changing over to TranSynd. Doesn't matter what the Freightliner guy says ... Allison Engineering doesn't recommend it. Too many things could go wrong and you could burn up the pump if you're not careful. Best way is to do a double drain and refill as follows: Drain fluid Refill with TranSynd Drive it around for 30 minutes Drain it again Change the filters Refill with TranSynd Don't wait for 6 months or X amount of miles. It doesn't make sense to wait since what remains of the old fluid will continue to degrade and have an affect of the overall quality of the first change. Just do it, pay the money, and be done with it for many many miles. Now, with respect to TranSynd and why it's the best. It does not degrade over very long periods of time (period). DEXRON-IIIH fluids were infamous for losing viscosity which led to bushing wear. TranSynd will "never" lose its viscosity. Oxidation life is significantly improved over DEXRON-IIIH. The DEXRON-IIIH oxidation test was 300 hours. The TES-295 (TranSynd) test is 600 hours and since oils degrade exponentially, the affect gives a much much longer oxidation life (maybe as much as 5-10 times). Friction retention is improved with TranSynd (or other TES-295 products) since the oxidation life is so good. Oxidation leads to formation of polarized molecules that stick to hot surfaces and change friction so the more stable TES-295 fluids have improved friction stability. Cold temperature is no comparison. TES-295 fluids remain pumpable and pourable at below -40F (-40C) which is well below what you'd ever need in the US and Canada. You can take my word for it that the data exists to prove all that I've stated here. Hope this helps !!! PS: For further questions, let's keep it to one thread because I don't always monitor the other threads and, like I said, it's difficult to keep up since I also run a business on a daily basis.

Tom,
Again, I surely wish to thank you for your expertise and taking the time to help us all here. I have another question for you. Since finding Transynd is sometimes a bit of a problem and, even when I do find it, it's for the most part, incredibly pricey. What I'd like your opinion on is, will other "TES 295" spec synthetic transmission fluids work in Transynds place? There are at least two that come to mind. One is Delvac Synthetic ATF and the other is Amsoil Torque Drive Synthetic ATF.

Both are touting the "Allison approval" of the TES 295 spec. Both are claiming the specs and benefits of using synthetic ATF. Both are saying they are "Allison approved". My question to you is, do you have any opinion on these alternate fluids for use in my Allison 3000MH? I ask this because I can, at the present time, purchase the Delvac Synthetic ATF for $170.00 for five gallons. At the present time, Transynd, from the closest source to me, a Freightliner Service Center, is $250.00 for five gallons. I've tried to locate it elsewhere but, not having much luck.

And, in the interest of doing the best for this transmission, I'd like to install synthetic fluid but, I'd surely want to make sure that what I'm installing is perfectly fine for it, albeit a bit cheaper than Transynd. Thanks again for your time. Hope all is well with the DIL.
Scott

P.S. I appollogise for the trivial price thing but, I'm trying to do the best for this rig and still be able to afford to use it.
Scott

[ottffss]

fire up - You might read Mr. Johnson's other thread where he has already covered your question about mixing different "brands" of TES-295. He is also trying to keep all TranSynd/TES-295 questions over there.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f125/former-allison-transmission-fluids-engineer-89293-10.html.

[Steve Ownby]

Scott,

When I did my change over for my 2nd change, I checked the price from many places. I could not beat the local Allison dealer who was at $32 for 5 gal. All the other TES295 Allison approved fluids were approx. the same.

If looking at other manufacturers, go to the Allison web site & look at approved products. Unless it has changed lately, Amsoil was not approved. They state that they meet the spec but they have not submitted their produce for testing. The testing is expensive.

[FIRE UP]

Steve,
Thanks very much for your info. I'll head off to the Allison web site and see what I can find.
Scott