RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > POWER TRAIN GARAGE FORUMS > Duramax Engine Forum
Click Here to Login

Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-29-2018, 01:31 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 19
2012 DEF Quality Poor fiasco

I'm posting this in case it saves someone else trouble down the road.

A few weeks ago my stock 2012 Silverado displayed the DEF Quality Poor 99 miles until speed limited to 65 (there was no CEL). I got an appointment with the shop at the first opportunity and took it in on Monday Nov 19th. Within an hour of waiting the service writer came out and told me he was arranging a loner vehicle since it would be a while.

Before I go much further into this story note that I had the truck in the shop about a month prior for a "Service DEF system see owners manual". Diagnosis was that the Reductant (DEF) heater wasn't working. This resulted in replacing the entire DEF tank including the heater as the heater "isn't serviceable on it's own".

Getting back on track here, having just had the DEF tank replaced and fresh DEF added, the shop new it likely wasn't actually a quality issue with the DEF itself. So the first step was replacing the #2 NOX sensor since it was reading abnormally high. They would run the DEF Quantity test, then a service regen, then the DEF Quality (RFQT) test. Each time the RFQT would time out after 70 minutes and the light would not clear. The next step was to replace the indirect fuel injector (even though a bench test of the injector passed). Then another Quantity test, service regen, and RFQT was ran. After multiple attempts it was now failing the RFQT test instead of timing out. The next step was to test the urea content of the DEF fluid per recommendation of GM. This test also passed.

This all occurred over the span of several days. Next the mechanic decided to check the fuel in the tank. He did a visual inspection of the fuel compared to a known clean source of diesel fuel. There was a stark visual difference in the fuel. My fuel was much darker and more yellow than the good fuel which was clearer and pale yellow. In the attached picture the two samples on the right are from my truck and the sample on the left is "good diesel from a known source".

I authorized them to go ahead and drop the tank and drain/clean/and inspect it and fill it with fresh fuel.

Once this was done, they ran the DEF quantity, service regen, and RFQT again. The RFQT passed in 15 minutes and cleared the light.

After having gone through this and having my truck out of service for 10 days I'll no longer purchase diesel fuel from Sheetz. To be fair, if the truck didn't have the emissions system it has (or if I'd have deleted it) I likely would have burned through the contaminated diesel and not have noticed other than maybe poor fuel mileage.

Hopefully this helps someone else avoid what I had to deal with.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FUEL SAMPLE.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	239.8 KB
ID:	227522  
__________________

wawazat is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-29-2018, 08:08 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 16,301
Here is another instance of diesel fuel contamination involving DEF.Contaminated Pilot Fuel - Caution!
__________________

__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA."We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution. "Abraham Lincoln"
Ray,IN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 06:11 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 19
Hi Ray, yes I read that thread. My case is a smidge diiferent however. The fuel wasn't contaminated with DEF. Sheetz doesn't have DEF available at the pump, I didn't purchase any so there was no chance I accidentally pumped DEF into the tank. Additionally, on a 2012 Duramax the DEF filler neck is located under the hood of the truck near the firewall on the passenger side. While the diesel fuel filler neck is in the traditional location behind the cab on the drivers side. It'd be extremely difficult to mix these up, even so the only DEF that was added to the truck was added when the shop replaced the entire tank about a month ago.
wawazat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 04:53 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 109
Sorry to read about your issues. The DEF tank heater combined with the internal tank components are available as an assembly without the tank. The inderect fuel injector is a modified gasoline fuel injector from a 4.3 litre V6 and is tested for flow and volume. If it passes the test using proper tester it should not have been replaced. If the mechanic had been watching the exhaust gas temp sensor readings he should have seen the highest temp on egt sensor 2. Fuel quality should always be tested FIRST before anything else. Throwing parts at an issue is not a good repair strategy.
__________________
Fred & Darla 2000 Tropi-cal and 2016 Chevy
Sonic toad
FredV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 09:34 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
WagonMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Yukon, OK, USA
Posts: 282
Just experienced the same problem while 2000 miles from home. Poor DEF Quality message, then CEL light. Took it to the nearest dealer. Ended up being the downstream NoX sensor. Chevy had extended the warranty on the sensors until 126.000 on 2011 Duramax LML. I'm within about 2500 miles of that so it was covered. Next day drove about 30 miles and message came back on. This was Saturday before Christmas and dealer closed. Drove it anyway and message went off. I was pretty anxious about driving back home but took the plunge. Message did not come back on thank goodness. Fed regulations that will strand a person driving a high dollar vehicle are ridiculous. You can guess what I'm going to do next. At about $1200 dollars it's a no brainer.
__________________
2014 Big Country 3650RL
2011 Chevy 3500HD, DRW, 4 X 4, Duramax/Allison
Retired, 3 Boston Terriers
WagonMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2019, 06:11 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
I got rid of my 2011 because of continuing DEF related issues.

Did you contact the fuel supplier about the issue?
__________________
2016 3500 Duramax,2010 Cruiser CF30SKP
Viet Nam Vet 70'-71'
1950 GPS (She tells me where to go!)
Bipeflier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2019, 06:49 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
WagonMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Yukon, OK, USA
Posts: 282
I don't think it was a fuel problem. From what I've read it wasn't a poor DEF quality problem either. It is a problem with the NoX sensors and the fact that politicians feel a need to enact unrealistic rules for light duty diesel trucks. I guess the part that makes me the most upset is that you can get stranded if you don't do something immediately to correct the problem. This is just not Duramax....others have the same problem. The lml duramax is a great engine that was ruined by the EPA. In order to increase efficiency and negate the fear of getting stranded we are forced to take illegal measures, like deleting DEF and DPF. I guess I'll be a criminal.
__________________
2014 Big Country 3650RL
2011 Chevy 3500HD, DRW, 4 X 4, Duramax/Allison
Retired, 3 Boston Terriers
WagonMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 01:49 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonMaster View Post
I don't think it was a fuel problem. From what I've read it wasn't a poor DEF quality problem either. It is a problem with the NoX sensors and the fact that politicians feel a need to enact unrealistic rules for light duty diesel trucks. I guess the part that makes me the most upset is that you can get stranded if you don't do something immediately to correct the problem. This is just not Duramax....others have the same problem. The lml duramax is a great engine that was ruined by the EPA. In order to increase efficiency and negate the fear of getting stranded we are forced to take illegal measures, like deleting DEF and DPF. I guess I'll be a criminal.
Thanks for the political rant and your irrelevant opinion BUT the OP covered the visual difference in his fuel and a clean sample. That prompted my question.
__________________
2016 3500 Duramax,2010 Cruiser CF30SKP
Viet Nam Vet 70'-71'
1950 GPS (She tells me where to go!)
Bipeflier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 01:55 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
WagonMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Yukon, OK, USA
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipeflier View Post
Thanks for the political rant and your irrelevant opinion BUT the OP covered the visual difference in his fuel and a clean sample. That prompted my question.
You're welcome, but I think my "irrelevant opinion" might mean a little more to you if you were stranded because of emissions problems. In MY OPINION, a modern diesel engine that runs normally should not be disabled for any reason other than mechanical. I see you're not affected by the DEF problem so I wonder why you're even replying.
__________________
2014 Big Country 3650RL
2011 Chevy 3500HD, DRW, 4 X 4, Duramax/Allison
Retired, 3 Boston Terriers
WagonMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 10:14 AM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipeflier View Post
Did you contact the fuel supplier about the issue?
Yes, I wrote to them using the "contact us" portal on their website. The employee that called was very rude. When I explained, that for the most part I wanted to make them aware of the issue, the employee cut me off mid-sentence and said "well if you don't want us to reimburse you then this call is over". There was no interest on their part to even consider the possibility of a fuel contamination issue in part due to no other complaints. I was told "wouldn't you think we'd have many more complaints if the fuel was bad". I responded that I wasn't sure, but it's feasible I filled up either right after they received delivery or right before they received delivery and subsequently picked up bad fuel that was later diluted or settled in their tanks. I've not pursued the issue any further since the insinuation was made that I was trying to extort money from them for my repairs. The tone of the call was immediately aggressive and defensive from the first minute. They lack any sense of concern for customer complaints IMO.
wawazat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 07:26 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 58
I was reading on some overlanding forums that new diesels from America have issues running on fuel in places like Africa. People get stuck and need service. OP defiantly proves good quality fuel is mandatory. I don't think I'd want a newer diesel in an exhibition rig exploring 3rd world countries.
diginomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2019, 08:52 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonMaster View Post
You're welcome, but I think my "irrelevant opinion" might mean a little more to you if you were stranded because of emissions problems. In MY OPINION, a modern diesel engine that runs normally should not be disabled for any reason other than mechanical. I see you're not affected by the DEF problem so I wonder why you're even replying.
Well if you would take the time to read and comprehend this thread you would see where I had posted of the DEF issues with my 2011. So to your post, I have been affected.
__________________
2016 3500 Duramax,2010 Cruiser CF30SKP
Viet Nam Vet 70'-71'
1950 GPS (She tells me where to go!)
Bipeflier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2019, 07:33 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
WagonMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Yukon, OK, USA
Posts: 282
Good to hear from you again brother. Non issue for me anymore....can you smell the diesel? My comprehension is pretty fair so far, but you know how the old years can add up. Later......
__________________
2014 Big Country 3650RL
2011 Chevy 3500HD, DRW, 4 X 4, Duramax/Allison
Retired, 3 Boston Terriers
WagonMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2019, 07:23 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: N M
Posts: 57
I traded of my 2012 duramax after going into limp mode Sturgis SD then in Laughlin. I traded it in for 2018 suppose to have fixed the Def derateding trouble. The best thing is to delete the emissions controller if you plan on keeping your early Duramax.
__________________

__________________
2018 1 ton Denali
2015 311 fusion impact toyhualer
2018 fltru roadglide ultra,2018 Z force 800
Roadglide54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
quality



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poor quality def light Jgmabry Newmar Owner's Forum 15 10-31-2017 05:05 PM
Cedar Creek - Poor, Poor Quality Dutch Master 5th Wheel Discussion 11 03-23-2017 09:12 AM
Bigfoot....Poor Quality....Poor Service....MY NIGHTMARE spkncarl Truck Camper Discussion 30 12-09-2008 02:20 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.