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Old 11-29-2018, 01:31 PM   #1
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2012 DEF Quality Poor fiasco

I'm posting this in case it saves someone else trouble down the road.

A few weeks ago my stock 2012 Silverado displayed the DEF Quality Poor 99 miles until speed limited to 65 (there was no CEL). I got an appointment with the shop at the first opportunity and took it in on Monday Nov 19th. Within an hour of waiting the service writer came out and told me he was arranging a loner vehicle since it would be a while.

Before I go much further into this story note that I had the truck in the shop about a month prior for a "Service DEF system see owners manual". Diagnosis was that the Reductant (DEF) heater wasn't working. This resulted in replacing the entire DEF tank including the heater as the heater "isn't serviceable on it's own".

Getting back on track here, having just had the DEF tank replaced and fresh DEF added, the shop new it likely wasn't actually a quality issue with the DEF itself. So the first step was replacing the #2 NOX sensor since it was reading abnormally high. They would run the DEF Quantity test, then a service regen, then the DEF Quality (RFQT) test. Each time the RFQT would time out after 70 minutes and the light would not clear. The next step was to replace the indirect fuel injector (even though a bench test of the injector passed). Then another Quantity test, service regen, and RFQT was ran. After multiple attempts it was now failing the RFQT test instead of timing out. The next step was to test the urea content of the DEF fluid per recommendation of GM. This test also passed.

This all occurred over the span of several days. Next the mechanic decided to check the fuel in the tank. He did a visual inspection of the fuel compared to a known clean source of diesel fuel. There was a stark visual difference in the fuel. My fuel was much darker and more yellow than the good fuel which was clearer and pale yellow. In the attached picture the two samples on the right are from my truck and the sample on the left is "good diesel from a known source".

I authorized them to go ahead and drop the tank and drain/clean/and inspect it and fill it with fresh fuel.

Once this was done, they ran the DEF quantity, service regen, and RFQT again. The RFQT passed in 15 minutes and cleared the light.

After having gone through this and having my truck out of service for 10 days I'll no longer purchase diesel fuel from Sheetz. To be fair, if the truck didn't have the emissions system it has (or if I'd have deleted it) I likely would have burned through the contaminated diesel and not have noticed other than maybe poor fuel mileage.

Hopefully this helps someone else avoid what I had to deal with.
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:08 PM   #2
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Here is another instance of diesel fuel contamination involving DEF.http://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/conta...on-421265.html
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Old 11-30-2018, 06:11 AM   #3
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Hi Ray, yes I read that thread. My case is a smidge diiferent however. The fuel wasn't contaminated with DEF. Sheetz doesn't have DEF available at the pump, I didn't purchase any so there was no chance I accidentally pumped DEF into the tank. Additionally, on a 2012 Duramax the DEF filler neck is located under the hood of the truck near the firewall on the passenger side. While the diesel fuel filler neck is in the traditional location behind the cab on the drivers side. It'd be extremely difficult to mix these up, even so the only DEF that was added to the truck was added when the shop replaced the entire tank about a month ago.
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:53 PM   #4
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Sorry to read about your issues. The DEF tank heater combined with the internal tank components are available as an assembly without the tank. The inderect fuel injector is a modified gasoline fuel injector from a 4.3 litre V6 and is tested for flow and volume. If it passes the test using proper tester it should not have been replaced. If the mechanic had been watching the exhaust gas temp sensor readings he should have seen the highest temp on egt sensor 2. Fuel quality should always be tested FIRST before anything else. Throwing parts at an issue is not a good repair strategy.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:34 PM   #5
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Just experienced the same problem while 2000 miles from home. Poor DEF Quality message, then CEL light. Took it to the nearest dealer. Ended up being the downstream NoX sensor. Chevy had extended the warranty on the sensors until 126.000 on 2011 Duramax LML. I'm within about 2500 miles of that so it was covered. Next day drove about 30 miles and message came back on. This was Saturday before Christmas and dealer closed. Drove it anyway and message went off. I was pretty anxious about driving back home but took the plunge. Message did not come back on thank goodness. Fed regulations that will strand a person driving a high dollar vehicle are ridiculous. You can guess what I'm going to do next. At about $1200 dollars it's a no brainer.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:11 PM   #6
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I got rid of my 2011 because of continuing DEF related issues.

Did you contact the fuel supplier about the issue?
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:49 AM   #7
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I don't think it was a fuel problem. From what I've read it wasn't a poor DEF quality problem either. It is a problem with the NoX sensors and the fact that politicians feel a need to enact unrealistic rules for light duty diesel trucks. I guess the part that makes me the most upset is that you can get stranded if you don't do something immediately to correct the problem. This is just not Duramax....others have the same problem. The lml duramax is a great engine that was ruined by the EPA. In order to increase efficiency and negate the fear of getting stranded we are forced to take illegal measures, like deleting DEF and DPF. I guess I'll be a criminal.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by WagonMaster View Post
I don't think it was a fuel problem. From what I've read it wasn't a poor DEF quality problem either. It is a problem with the NoX sensors and the fact that politicians feel a need to enact unrealistic rules for light duty diesel trucks. I guess the part that makes me the most upset is that you can get stranded if you don't do something immediately to correct the problem. This is just not Duramax....others have the same problem. The lml duramax is a great engine that was ruined by the EPA. In order to increase efficiency and negate the fear of getting stranded we are forced to take illegal measures, like deleting DEF and DPF. I guess I'll be a criminal.
Thanks for the political rant and your irrelevant opinion BUT the OP covered the visual difference in his fuel and a clean sample. That prompted my question.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bipeflier View Post
Thanks for the political rant and your irrelevant opinion BUT the OP covered the visual difference in his fuel and a clean sample. That prompted my question.
You're welcome, but I think my "irrelevant opinion" might mean a little more to you if you were stranded because of emissions problems. In MY OPINION, a modern diesel engine that runs normally should not be disabled for any reason other than mechanical. I see you're not affected by the DEF problem so I wonder why you're even replying.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bipeflier View Post
Did you contact the fuel supplier about the issue?
Yes, I wrote to them using the "contact us" portal on their website. The employee that called was very rude. When I explained, that for the most part I wanted to make them aware of the issue, the employee cut me off mid-sentence and said "well if you don't want us to reimburse you then this call is over". There was no interest on their part to even consider the possibility of a fuel contamination issue in part due to no other complaints. I was told "wouldn't you think we'd have many more complaints if the fuel was bad". I responded that I wasn't sure, but it's feasible I filled up either right after they received delivery or right before they received delivery and subsequently picked up bad fuel that was later diluted or settled in their tanks. I've not pursued the issue any further since the insinuation was made that I was trying to extort money from them for my repairs. The tone of the call was immediately aggressive and defensive from the first minute. They lack any sense of concern for customer complaints IMO.
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Old 04-14-2019, 07:26 PM   #11
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I was reading on some overlanding forums that new diesels from America have issues running on fuel in places like Africa. People get stuck and need service. OP defiantly proves good quality fuel is mandatory. I don't think I'd want a newer diesel in an exhibition rig exploring 3rd world countries.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:52 AM   #12
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You're welcome, but I think my "irrelevant opinion" might mean a little more to you if you were stranded because of emissions problems. In MY OPINION, a modern diesel engine that runs normally should not be disabled for any reason other than mechanical. I see you're not affected by the DEF problem so I wonder why you're even replying.
Well if you would take the time to read and comprehend this thread you would see where I had posted of the DEF issues with my 2011. So to your post, I have been affected.
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:33 PM   #13
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Good to hear from you again brother. Non issue for me anymore....can you smell the diesel? My comprehension is pretty fair so far, but you know how the old years can add up. Later......
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:23 AM   #14
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I traded of my 2012 duramax after going into limp mode Sturgis SD then in Laughlin. I traded it in for 2018 suppose to have fixed the Def derateding trouble. The best thing is to delete the emissions controller if you plan on keeping your early Duramax.
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