the big 3 dyno test

[aspeyrer]

Actually its fords first or maybe second try. international built the 6.0 and 6.4. i think international also built the 7.3, international calls the 7.3 the DT444. so that would make the 6.7, fords true first try.

Originally Posted by RustyJC

I wasn't aware I "blasted" your posts. Since the original post compared the Big 3 trucks, that seemed to open the discussion for those of us who own one of the trucks compared. With that understood, I made a technical rebuttal of some of the data submitted; test data needs to be understood if it's to be meaningful. Just because it's posted on the Internet does not in and of itself make it gospel. That notwithstanding, if you think that anything I've said is inaccurate, then challenge it. (By the way, here on iRV2 any member is welcome to post on any forum.)

I'm really not concerned about talking when my 6.7L Cummins accumulates some miles as there are any number of them that already have several hundred thousand uneventful miles. It will be more interesting to talk when some of the other new engines that were covered in the tests have done the same, wouldn't you agree, especially since this represents Ford's 4th try at a diesel engine in the last decade (7.3L, 6.0L, 6.4L and now 6.7L).

Rusty

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by aspeyrer

Actually its fords first or maybe second try. international built the 6.0 and 6.4. i think international also built the 7.3, international calls the 7.3 the DT444. so that would make the 6.7, fords true first try.

The reference to "try" as I used the term includes EITHER procurement of a satisfactory diesel engine from an outside supplier (such as Cummins, Navistar or Isuzu) OR development of an in-house design. Frankly, the approach is transparent to the end user - they bought a Ford truck. Therefore, I'll stand by my statement - it's Ford's 4th try at a diesel engine in the last decade.

Rusty

[aspeyrer]

fords 7.3, "there first try" was very sucessful, then there second and thrid try with two engines from Navistar, had problems. now there fourth try with a engine they developed entirely "in house" is also doing well.
Interpret the term "try" as you wish. I know in your eyes, if its not a Dodge Cummins its no goodbrand wars?

Originally Posted by RustyJC

The reference to "try" as I used the term includes EITHER procurement of a satisfactory diesel engine from an outside supplier (such as Cummins, Navistar or Isuzu) OR development of an in-house design. Frankly, the approach is transparent to the end user - they bought a Ford truck. Therefore, I'll stand by my statement - it's Ford's 4th try at a diesel engine in the last decade.

Rusty

[RustyJC]

The 7.3L was just fine, except that it wouldn't meet new EPA emission regulations; thus, the 6.0. Actually, there were IDI engines that predated the 7.3L Powerstroke - that's why I restricted my comment to the last decade.

Methinks you're being a little touchy here. A discussion of the relative merits of various product offerings does NOT constitute a brand war.

I choose Cummins power for the reasons I've stated. If someone else wants to lay down $60K+ of their hard-earned money for a new 6.7L Ford, that's certainly their prerogative. It's their money and their choice, and I for one wish them all the luck in the world. The last thing that Ford can afford right now is another failure, and I don't think anyone wishes that on Ford or their customers.

Rusty

[lynn boyd]

"The last thing that Ford can afford right now is another failure"
another failure? really?

I know your not a big fan of information, so this is for others that may be interested. I wasnt able to find any tests that dodge didnt place last in power/fuel mileage. in fact the pull up 16% grade with a 12k trailer caused the tranny temp on the ram to spike
Dodge Ram 2500 Laramie Diesel Pickup Truck - Sierra 2500HD Diesel Truck Review - Popular Mechanics

2011 Ford F-250 Super Duty vs 2010 Ram 2500 HD Comparison - Truck Trend

2010 HD 16 Percent Hill Climb Test - PickupTrucks.com Special Reports

[Gary - K7GLD]

The last thing that Ford can afford right now is another failure, and I don't think anyone wishes that on Ford or their customers.

ABSOLUTELY!

I've owned and fully enjoyed FAR more Ford vehicles than all other brands combined - we've seen enough erosion of our USA production on a wide scope of goods and manufacturing - I for another, sincerely hope our remaining "Big 3" automakers are able to stay in the game...

All that being said, I still enjoy discussion and comparison of various brands - their weak, and strong points - I have absolutely NO insecurities - OR embarrassment over my own selection - and surely, the Ford and GM crowd must have the same security and maturity?

[REWahoo]

Nothing more entertaining than a bunch of grown men in a p!ssing match...

[RustyJC]

Let me spell it out more plainly for you since you seem to be having problems understanding my statement. As aspeyrer (to whose post I was responding) stated, "...then their second and third try with two engines from Navistar (the 6.0L and the 6.4L), had problems." (Parenthetical amplification mine.)

I was merely agreeing with him and stating that, from a warranty cost and market perception perspective, I truly hope that the 6.7L engine works out for Ford and serves to erase the memories of the "problematic" 6.0L and 6.4L engines.

Just to make it clear, until 1990, I drove nothing but Fords (well, there was one Volvo turbo wagon in there), but at this point I'm not really brand-loyal to anything. Our current stable of vehicles includes a Dodge, a Toyota, an Acura and a BMW motorcycle. I buy the tool that best satisfies my requirements, whoever happens to make it.

And, by the way, when you get some magazine articles comparing the CURRENT 350/800 Cummins HO, then I might be a little more interested....

Rusty

[lynn boyd]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

And, by the way, when you get some magazine articles comparing the CURRENT 350/800 Cummins HO, then I might be a little more interested....

Rusty

me too..
especially with the tranny overheating during tests with "stock" hp-torque. (you can read about it in the last link)

[lynn boyd]

Originally Posted by REWahoo

Nothing more entertaining than a bunch of grown men in a p!ssing match...

right!?
things are kinda dull around here latley, its all in good fun.

(dont tell ole Rusty, but I sure wish I could afford to go get me one of those new dodges!) any of the new ones.

[RustyJC]

As far as the 350/650 Cummins is concerned, my 3500 dually with 4.10 gearing (in other words, properly equipped to tow our 16,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel) has exhibited a maximum transmission temperature as monitored on the EVIC of 173 degF when towing. Normal operating range on the highway is 155 to 160 degF. I've seen it drop to 125 degF when maneuvering the 5th wheel at low speeds into its covered storage bay.

That's my point. Your only "experience" with the current crop of trucks is what you read in magazine articles. I have firsthand experience in the real world towing a 16,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel with our 2011 Dodge. Excessive transmission temperatures have NOT been a problem with the 68RFE in my experience, and I've not seen any reports of failures or problems from other owners who tow heavy 5th wheels. Given your lack of firsthand experience, I'm frankly at the point that further discussion with you on this topic appears to be futile.

The last word is yours......

Rusty

[lynn boyd]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

Given your lack of firsthand experience, I'm frankly at the point that further discussion with you on this topic appears to be futile.

The last word is yours......

Rusty

c'mon rusty, what kind of "firsthand experience" do you have with the 6.7? or the duramax? not very many of us get the chance to drive all 3 on the same road at the same time with the same load..

last word.. im glad you like your truck, im sure its a trailer towing SOB.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by lynn boyd

c'mon rusty, what kind of "firsthand experience" do you have with the 6.7? or the duramax?

OK, as long as you're going to keep directing posts at me....

I don't believe I've said anything at all regarding the towing performance or characteristics of either the 2011 Ford or GM trucks, have I? I've not slandered nor otherwise denigrated them, since I have no experience with them. My comments regarding towing performance have been restricted to the 2011 Dodge Cummins, where I DO have firsthand experience.

You might consider practicing the same discipline....just a suggestion.

Rusty

[lynn boyd]

you saying I shouldnt have an opinion since I dont own one?
all Ive done is post links to the test results that are all over the web! thats not slanderous. is what it is. but hey, ignorance is bliss.