Community Forums

fountainhead · 07-09-2019, 07:14 AM

I’ve got an M2-106 based coach (not a renegade) that I’ve put about 20,000 miles on...mostly pulling a heavily loaded 32’ enclosed trailer. While the coach has been great, there are a handful of driving characteristics that I’ve convinced myself would not exist in a heavier, tandem axle, class 8 based coach.

Is there anyone on here that has relatively significant seat time in both a class6/7 and a class 8 based super c that wouldn’t mind sharing their thoughts on the differences between the two and possibly fielding a few specific questions?

For reference, I’m looking for a 45’ classic...possibly on an updated Volvo VNL chassis (although I’m not opposed to a Cascadia). I came across this thread while familiarizing myself with this forum and was disappointed to hear the feedback on the DD16/12 speed setup:

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f18/new-renegade-classics-430731.html

Thanks!
JT

dadej · 07-09-2019, 03:55 PM

I pull a 20000 pound fifth wheel with a 2014 volvo 630 d-13 425 HP I shift transmission. I had a 2005 freightliner C-7 cat 300 HP ultra shift trans pulling 14000 pounds. Absolutley no comparison in power and ride comfort. The I shift of the Volvo is night and day different above the ultra shift. I think if you drive a Volvo you will see what I mean.

bhammond1980 · 07-09-2019, 08:44 PM

We had a Dynamax Grand Sport 380 with a C7 and Allison 3000MH transmission. It worked fine as long as we were on flat land keeping our speed around 60mph. The suspension was a little light for the load and I often thought about changing shocks to stop quite a bounce back over some bumps. We only towed a jeep so I can't really tell you how it would have been towing a significant trailer. What I didn't like about this rig was mountain driving. You had to pick the slow lane, turn on your flashers and settle in at 45mph. That wasn't the worst, once you crested the top you were on the brakes all the way down since the exhaust brake was worthless. It got 7.5mpg no matter how you drove it and the engine ran great for the 40k miles we put on it.
Last Year we traded up to a Haulmark with DD60 series and the ZF automated 12 speed transmission and tandem drives. There is a significant difference between the two. Now when you set the cruise @ 65-70 it is going to stay there in most conditions. It will climb many grades without even downshifting. The other nice thing is that our rig has a 2 stage engine brake so you can stay at a controlled speed without burning up your brakes. Even though the rig has a GVW of 54,000 and is capable of towing up to 40,000 the ride is significantly smoother. Small bumps, like overpasses, don't send you to the ceiling. This rig averages 8.5mpg towing the same jeep.

fountainhead · 07-10-2019, 10:35 AM

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

bhammond1980 - I know you mentioned the Haulmark having a smoother ride, did you notice any differences in the handling...specifically around required steering input, the pulling impact of ruts/grooves in the highway, and how the coach was effected by strong side winds or by passed or passing big rigs? My assumption is that the heavier coach with 4 additional tires on the ground would have a significant advantage in each of these areas.

JT

bhammond1980 · 07-10-2019, 08:25 PM

The Dynamax on the M2 heavy chassis definitely got pushed around by big trucks roaring by. Still, you could keep it under control. The Dynamax wasn't effected by grooves or highway seams but the ride was like driving a large boat.
The Haulmark is just a different class all together. You can feel other large vehicles pass but it does not get pulled and pushed like the M2. I attribute the better ride to the tandem axles and the overall length of the chassis. The only downside to the Haulmark and Columbia chassis is its turning radius. You definitely have to plan your escape route in advance.
Other than that, the Haulmark on the Columbia is less stressful/work to drive, much more solid than the M2.
I have attached pictures of both.

fountainhead · 07-11-2019, 11:53 AM

Awesome feedback...I appreciate it.

Do you happen to know what your Haulmark weighs all loaded up?

JT

bhammond1980 · 07-14-2019, 07:38 PM

I think mid 40k, I am curious also and will run it across a scale in the next few weeks. I will check with all of the tanks full.

bhammond1980 · 07-23-2019, 08:23 PM

GVWR 55,660 lbs
With full water we typically leave home at about 45,000 lbs
Hope this helps.

fountainhead · 07-24-2019, 10:59 AM

Great info...thanks again for all the feedback!

PA RENEGADE · 07-31-2019, 12:14 PM

Hey JT, you may remember me from the other post you were referring to but I had an Renegade Explorer for 6 years bullet proof and traded in for a 2018 Classic which I have now had for over 2 years. Wasn't at the time real happy as I had oodles of problems in the beginning but now after 15k miles it has been smooth sailing. May I add that none of the issues were Renegade issues but their vendor issues that have all been resolved.
My Explorer was 38.5' w/Cummins ISC 350hp 40k miles loved it but wanted to trade up for new. Drove from Pa to IWS to pick up my new Explorer and made the good mistake of test driving a Cascadia. That's all it took. Took out a 45' tandem axle DD16. Allison 4000 trans. That truck stuck to the road like glue. I don't see how anyone could complain in anyway about that powertrain. Ran it for 30 miles. Speed limits out there were 80 and we pushed it a little.. End up settling for a single axle Classic DD13 41' 4000Allison simply because a Tandem was overkill for our needs. Plenty of power. So my comments about the two would certainly mirror what bhammonds is telling you and is reflected in the difference in the price I was willing to pay. Did not drive a Volvo simply because I am close by to a Freightliner dealer here in Pa. Hope this helps a little. Any questions , shoot them to me. Good Luck! Paul

fountainhead · 08-01-2019, 10:09 AM

Paul,

Awesome feedback as well! I've watched the IWS videos, and Chuck has made similar comments about how the bigger trucks handled (especially at higher speeds). I've never spoken with someone that's actually owned and put a fair amount of miles on both chassis, though. I'm super happy to hear that you can confirm that. A couple of questions - does the single axle Cascadia that you ended up with provide that same 'stuck to the road like glue' experience as the tandem axle 45' coach you test drove? Can you tell many/any differences in the two?

Thanks again for posting up!
JT

PA RENEGADE · 08-02-2019, 01:42 PM

JT, from my recollection of driving both trucks (which was now two years ago), I have to say that both trucks are sufficiently powered. Was just running the PA Turnpike North where there is a 7-8% grade right after the tunnel for 6 or 7 miles. 4 people full of all fluids for a long weekend (no trailer) and ran up at 67mph in cruise with no downshifting. The DD13 has been remarkable. I run a tad over 10mpg flat, 8.5 hilly. Smooth as butter. very little side pushing. Never have I once been put into a squirrely situation. Very much handles like my pick up. I will again say that the 45' DD16 tandem axle left a "holy crap I would never believed it if I didn't drive it " moment in my little brain. It is definitely a step up if you need and/or just want the 45' and all that comes with it. Again, never drove the Volvo. Getting back to mine, my decision was in the end based on maintaining that whole big package. I don't know how far you are from IWS but honestly, those guys will spend two weeks with you helping you decide or not. They will let you drive any and all units he has. They are a tremendous tool in the process and he has them in stock. Hope this helps. Paul

P.S. was remembering my daughter and son in law following us in their Yukon on that last trip. When we arrived at the campground my son in law remarked about how I handled the Renegade. Said I was easy to follow. Said I looked lik a professional driver because I had asked him if he noticed any swaying or over the line stuff because sometimes I feel as though I do that but he said not at all.

petrel · 08-03-2019, 07:08 AM

Joining the conversation a little late here, but just noticed that you had mentioned my remarks about the DD16. Perhaps I should clarify my expectations for that rig.

With the DD16 being rated at 85hp and 200 ft/lbs torque more than my current renegade, I was hoping for a marked increase in acceleration (not power, there is plenty of that for the mountains). What I discovered was that it felt less responsive to throttle input than my Series 60. I found myself just holding it to the floor and waiting for the truck to do what it wanted. It was silky smooth and quiet, but not very responsive both from a dead stop, and when rolling out onto a highway on ramp.

Now with that said, the same engine paired with the 6 speed and/or possibly tuned differently in a Cascadia may be a completely different performer. Your impression of the setup may also be different depending on what you are accustomed to driving.

Regarding handling. Once the dw and I test drove the first truck conversion, we shopped nothing else. I think they all pretty much go down the road like they are on rails. A Class 8 truck is the least fatiguing vehicle I have every driven. They are designed for people who drive them every day, over 10 hours a day.