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Old 01-12-2016, 12:05 AM   #43
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this quite simply is not true. premier owns the land and buildings they are in.
That's what we were told when we bought our Magna. And as we now know CC and it's property have been sold.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:11 AM   #44
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They sold me my 98 Concept 2 years ago. ....I did have problems with them that continue. Mainly service records they have and will not share with me, I have been waiting all this time for what they promised ! .......I discovered major front end damage repair that they did not disclose......otherwise they were nice folks to deal with !!!!!
I'm pretty sure if they had the records they'd give them to you. It took some time to get ours as the owner (consignment) had not left them in the rig. We did get them the day we signed for it.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:14 AM   #45
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Last I heard, which was at the GS rally in Phoenix last year the Silverleaf "glass dash" was going into higher production and they would be down to about $6,000 for one made to your spec's.
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:22 PM   #46
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I'm pretty sure if they had the records they'd give them to you. It took some time to get ours as the owner (consignment) had not left them in the rig. We did get them the day we signed for it.
That would be nice to think so , we did feel that way.....two years ago. The story I always got about every few months was , " we are trying to get from owner, or he is out of the Country and it will be a few more months" Total crap, the way I see it ! Now they will not even return our emails.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:45 PM   #47
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That would be nice to think so , we did feel that way.....two years ago. The story I always got about every few months was , " we are trying to get from owner, or he is out of the Country and it will be a few more months" Total crap, the way I see it ! Now they will not even return our emails.
Further clairafication : There are more Premier Compaines Than there are number of models of CC RVs . As far as I know there is no direct connection between them all. My dealings were with only two Premiers ,the one in Junction City, Or. ( Gary and Susan ) where I bought my CCC. The other Premier I have been working with is Premier in Tucson, Az. ( Eric ) . This has been the main reason I wanted all service and replacement records for my Concept that is now 18 years old. Things break, things wear out , luck is always with us as well, sometimes for the good, and sometimes for the bad. Example , when I bought the Coach I was told " new radiator, that's good as CC had Problems with Factory Rads. " I saw that as a plus, ...now over a year later the engine runs hot, and with a new unit, I look for other areas causing problems. I take into Premier in Tucson , I am told , " no new radiator, everything looks old or original " . I was also told the coach had been in an axicdent ( not on car fax ) inside panels were missing, electronics open to weather , sheet stainless had been replaced in areas around front........Last winter I had total failure of tag axle assembly.. Took two months and 8,000 to fix , cause ? " maybe because coach was towed an stress on tag assembly caused metal cracks " . Bottom line , I see a cover up , title had been r" reissued " in 08 , no reason stated. It's things like this that raze so many questions that could very well have showed up on service history plus matainence records........For the lack of answers, I see a cover up, possibility one where I would have had second thoughts on the purchase. ....Advice from experence, do NOT buy any vehicle with out records .
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:57 PM   #48
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Further clairafication : There are more Premier Compaines Than there are number of models of CC RVs . As far as I know there is no direct connection between them all. My dealings were with only two Premiers ,the one in Junction City, Or. ( Gary and Susan ) where I bought my CCC. The other Premier I have been working with is Premier in Tucson, Az. ( Eric ) . This has been the main reason I wanted all service and replacement records for my Concept that is now 18 years old. Things break, things wear out , luck is always with us as well, sometimes for the good, and sometimes for the bad. Example , when I bought the Coach I was told " new radiator, that's good as CC had Problems with Factory Rads. " I saw that as a plus, ...now over a year later the engine runs hot, and with a new unit, I look for other areas causing problems. I take into Premier in Tucson , I am told , " no new radiator, everything looks old or original " . I was also told the coach had been in an accident ( not on car fax ) inside panels were missing, electronics open to weather , sheet stainless had been replaced in areas around front........Last winter I had total failure of tag axle assembly.. Took two months and 8,000 to fix , cause ? " maybe because coach was towed an stress on tag assembly caused metal cracks " . Bottom line , I see a cover up , title had been r" reissued " in 08 , no reason stated. It's things like this that raze so many questions that could very well have showed up on service history plus maintenance records........For the lack of answers, I see a cover up, possibility one where I would have had second thoughts on the purchase. ....Advice from experience, do NOT buy any vehicle with out records .
CarFax is pretty much worthless since there is no legal requirement for anything to be reported to them.
Was the damage (missing inside panels, electronics open to weather and the replaced panels) noted when you inspected it or had it inspected?
Older CC's could not be towed by lifting the front axle, they usually came with a very heavy duty towbar or warnings to flatbed only. Doing otherwise could damage the tag. No dealer selling a used unit would know how it was towed previous to their receiving it.
As to buying without records. It seems that dealers feel they should not give out the previous owners records as it might be a violation of privacy laws so they take out any service records. If a buyer does get them they should feel lucky. Previous records were in our manual package, but the previous owner was a trucker with his own shop and no records of general maintenance were ever made. We did get the Cummins shop warranty repair records.
I guess I'm curious that if the inspection showed these problems and the reissued title, why did you buy it?
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:29 PM   #49
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CarFax is pretty much worthless since there is no legal requirement for anything to be reported to them.
Was the damage (missing inside panels, electronics open to weather and the replaced panels) noted when you inspected it or had it inspected?
Older CC's could not be towed by lifting the front axle, they usually came with a very heavy duty towbar or warnings to flatbed only. Doing otherwise could damage the tag. No dealer selling a used unit would know how it was towed previous to their receiving it.
As to buying without records. It seems that dealers feel they should not give out the previous owners records as it might be a violation of privacy laws so they take out any service records. If a buyer does get them they should feel lucky. Previous records were in our manual package, but the previous owner was a trucker with his own shop and no records of general maintenance were ever made. We did get the Cummins shop warranty repair records.
I guess I'm curious that if the inspection showed these problems and the reissued title, why did you buy it?
I should have known better regarding the open panel to the front steering compartment.....problems did not start until I had driven in rain over a year. The special tow bar is in place, shows no sign of being used. I disagree on the records, they should be with the coach , just like a used airplane. The reissued title was not specific and as you have said Car Fax can not be totally accurate. I took the word of the dealer I bought it from, and that the records were available, along with what I was told about new radiator. I as anyone else only now start to see a coverup , not that there is concrete proof of being in an axcident, it's the diversion of the lack of information plus the problems I had coming together. Maybe had Premier came forward with records, to back up what I was told I would not have reason to question what may have happened. Disclosure is a good thing, has nothing to do with protecting a previous owners personal history., and yes , had I had access to ALL serious repairs, I may not have bought , or maybe i still would, it's still a very nice rare motor coach. .
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:59 PM   #50
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Previous owner can do whatever they want with the manuals and records, including not giving them to the dealer or buyer. Unlike an airplane there are no Federal Requirements for maintenance or logs of any kind that follow the airframe.
I don't see a "cover up", I do see that you haven't gotten records you feel you should have.
Did Premier in OR own the RV outright or was it on consignment?
We bought our Magna from them and I also thought there was a cover up, but when I followed the timeline I could see it wasn't possible and the oil test we had done wouldn't have shown the impending problems we had.
I also didn't do my due diligence in looking the Magna over and missed a fogged window and a leaking electrical compartment. My own fault too although the unit was inside the building and the window fogging didn't show.
Would I buy from them again? Probably, but I'd hire someone to inspect the rig first rather than depending on my long time experience. The Magna is MUCH more complicated than our '02 Dutch Star and I should have known better.
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:27 AM   #51
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Previous owner can do whatever they want with the manuals and records, including not giving them to the dealer or buyer. Unlike an airplane there are no Federal Requirements for maintenance or logs of any kind that follow the airframe.
I don't see a "cover up", I do see that you haven't gotten records you feel you should have.
Did Premier in OR own the RV outright or was it on consignment?
We bought our Magna from them and I also thought there was a cover up, but when I followed the timeline I could see it wasn't possible and the oil test we had done wouldn't have shown the impending problems we had.
I also didn't do my due diligence in looking the Magna over and missed a fogged window and a leaking electrical compartment. My own fault too although the unit was inside the building and the window fogging didn't show.
Would I buy from them again? Probably, but I'd hire someone to inspect the rig first rather than depending on my long time experience. The Magna is MUCH more complicated than our '02 Dutch Star and I should have known better.
As most of what Premier sells, it was a consignment. This is where Premier grounds their policy and reputation . Gary told me directly that it is company policy to hand pick only the best examples to be excepted in the consignment circle......I find that a good show , a commitment welcome to potential buyers. What is not said is Premier has an well equipped shop, one that can do about anything a customer wants, as long as they are willing to pay for it. What we don't know is what was the coach like when it was introduced into the consignment program. All the more reason to have past records and conditions. I like you based my decision to buy on what I saw, a very nice Concept and in your case a Magna. It's what I did not know that has bothered me these last two years. The history , as I was promised , never materlized, that is where things are at still, I have not given up, I continue to ask for the history.
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:48 PM   #52
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As most of what Premier sells, it was a consignment. This is where Premier grounds their policy and reputation . Gary told me directly that it is company policy to hand pick only the best examples to be excepted in the consignment circle......I find that a good show , a commitment welcome to potential buyers. What is not said is Premier has an well equipped shop, one that can do about anything a customer wants, as long as they are willing to pay for it. What we don't know is what was the coach like when it was introduced into the consignment program. All the more reason to have past records and conditions. I like you based my decision to buy on what I saw, a very nice Concept and in your case a Magna. It's what I did not know that has bothered me these last two years. The history , as I was promised , never materlized, that is where things are at still, I have not given up, I continue to ask for the history.
Just an update in our quest for disclosure . Today we received word from Premier Junction City , that " will try once more to ask the previous owner for records on the Concept ". Our reply , as of today, " can you at lest provide us with what service and repairs ( work order ) were preformed in your shop on behalf of the consignment owner" ? ........I am waiting a reply from Premier as of now.
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Old 01-19-2016, 08:06 AM   #53
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running hot

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Yes, all three. The right rear was leaking a lot, as long as they had my Concept up in the air I had all three original valves replaced. There still was a lean to the right front , so they put a little more air in the right rear. That seemed to level off the coach. I still need new shocks ( one of right rear was broke off ) but will hold off till I get home in April....if I can. Even with one less shocks my trip from Tucson to Bolder City was greatly improved. When parked it now levels automatically quickly , and on the road handling is improved a lot.

I do have a more serious problem , the engine runs 200 to 220 degrees, and that was in 50 degrees.. Not sure what's wrong. Was told I need to replace the fan control to a mechanical unit...as a guess. I am not sure what will happen when the air temps get to 75 and 80. I am trying to decide who I should take it too, Detroit Diesel shop or RV repair shop ? Anyone else have had this problem ?
My coach was running hot after I got it back from the shop. Since the coach was new to me I had them change all fluids and filters which included the coolant filter. On our first trip in it after the service I noticed it was running a little hot, around 200 degrees.

I found several minor coolant leaks that only required tightening hose clamps to resolve. I'm not sure why the mechanic didn't catch these. I added close to a gallon of coolant and also opened the bleed screw to let out any air in the system. There is a sticker on the coolant fill/overflow tank that says to open "both" bleed screws but I can only see one. The one I see is pretty hard to get to and had to use a pair of pliers to loosen as there is no way to fit a screwdriver between it and the top of the engine bay. I never did see coolant come out of the bleed screw so I'm not sure if I did it correctly but it is running cooler now, around 180 to 185.

What does everyone see as normal running temps on their coaches with the Series 60 engine?

Thanks,
David
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:38 PM   #54
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Thanks everyone for all of the leads. Sounds like there are some knowledgeable people around when it comes to the Concept. Glad to hear there is someone in Florida, Arizona, and Oregon.

My biggest problem right now is an air leak at the dryer. My local mechanic (diesel truck shop) rebuilt the purge valve on the dryer. I think the Dryer is a Bendix AD-9, if anyone knows differently please correct me. It is constantly leaking air (sputtering sound from front of rear axle area) and the coach won't air up.

Oddly, if I turn on the HWH air leveling and press the up button for the rear of the coach the system will air up. It still takes a very long time. Once I am running at higher RPMs everything is ok but it is still leaking. I will probably try and replace the entire air dryer myself this week to see if that will solve the problem.

Anyone have any issue like this?

Darstar, did you have to replace the HWH leveling valves or the ride leveling valves?
WW Williams has a special price on replacing the Air Dryer assembly of $318. At that price you might be better off letting them do it, that includes a reman assembly.
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:10 AM   #55
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My coach was running hot after I got it back from the shop. Since the coach was new to me I had them change all fluids and filters which included the coolant filter. On our first trip in it after the service I noticed it was running a little hot, around 200 degrees.

I found several minor coolant leaks that only required tightening hose clamps to resolve. I'm not sure why the mechanic didn't catch these. I added close to a gallon of coolant and also opened the bleed screw to let out any air in the system. There is a sticker on the coolant fill/overflow tank that says to open "both" bleed screws but I can only see one. The one I see is pretty hard to get to and had to use a pair of pliers to loosen as there is no way to fit a screwdriver between it and the top of the engine bay. I never did see coolant come out of the bleed screw so I'm not sure if I did it correctly but it is running cooler now, around 180 to 185.

What does everyone see as normal running temps on their coaches with the Series 60 engine?

Thanks,
David
Mine has been running 200 all the time the last two years I have owned it. It's always down coolant by a gallon every 600 miles or so. It even would not start at rest area once because of low coolant, in the middle of nowhere in the Texas Panhandle ! We blamed that on coolant tank gasket. ( took 3 gal or more to fill.) the overflow tank is poorly designed being horizontal fill, so I have always blamed the temps , but now it's running 210 plus on grades in 50-60 outdoor temps. Even got up to 220 once, red light came on for a second before I backed off peddle. No sure what temps I will get in April when I return to Michigan. I plan on getting it into WW Williams in Vegas next month, so will see.........
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Old 02-29-2016, 07:56 AM   #56
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Mine has been running 200 all the time the last two years I have owned it. It's always down coolant by a gallon every 600 miles or so. It even would not start at rest area once because of low coolant, in the middle of nowhere in the Texas Panhandle ! We blamed that on coolant tank gasket. ( took 3 gal or more to fill.) the overflow tank is poorly designed being horizontal fill, so I have always blamed the temps , but now it's running 210 plus on grades in 50-60 outdoor temps. Even got up to 220 once, red light came on for a second before I backed off peddle. No sure what temps I will get in April when I return to Michigan. I plan on getting it into WW Williams in Vegas next month, so will see.........
Darstar-

I just read your last post regarding your coolant temp issues. It made me cringe because I just went through almost the exact same thing last year which, I hate to say, ended with a complete in-frame overhaul of my Detroit 6V92.

Here was my experience: I found I was having to add coolant at a rate of about a gallon every 500 miles or so. Initially the coolant was not visually evident in my engine oil, most likely because the engine holds about 6 gallons of oil. There also was no evidence whatsoever of any coolant leaking from the coach. Coolant continued to "disappear" and at a greater rate. By this time the oil was becoming a milky green color and I knew coolant was getting into the oil. I let the coach sit without starting it for two weeks as water/coolant is heavier than water and would separate and settle in the oil pan. Sure enough, when I pulled the drain plug at least two gallons of what looked like pure coolant gushed out before the oil began to drain. I went ahead and changed the oil and filter and then took the coach to large shop in Sacramento hoping against all odds it was somehow related to the hydronic heating system. Of course, it turned out to be a head gasket and by the time they removed the cylinder heads I decided to go the full route as they recommended. Fortunately the main crankshaft bearings were in great shape and they said repairing that would have been an even much bigger and more expensive job.

They told me I was lucky those bearings not damaged and that I did not continue operating the coach with coolant in the oil. Since the overhaul I have already put about 3,000 miles on the new motor and have not had to add one drop of coolant.

I sure hope you have smaller and less expensive problem but I would strongly recommend having an oil analysis done ASAP. Best of luck.

Russ
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