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Old 07-31-2018, 08:40 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by dave&ginny View Post
After driving for 20 years in big trucks and being in Peoria (head quarters for CAT), I was always a CAT man. That old 3406 was a heck of a power plant. But CAT didn't voluntarily get out of the trucking business.

I know the national sales manager for over the road CAT engines. He said that the large manufactures like PACAR (Pete & Kenworth) as well as Frieghtliner all refused to spec out the CAT after Cummins came in with some sort of special deal. With those big buyers out of the picture, they had no choice but to focus on the off road equipment.

I still miss the low end torque of that 3406 and watching the cummins in my mirrors slowly fading off in the rockies
Cummins had the advantage because of their corporate average. All the compliant pickup engines made it easier to meet the EPA goals. But I agree. the Cat c-13 and c-15 would be a better choice for bigger motorhomes, and very possibly, more reliable than the Cummins.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:32 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Blondiega1 View Post
I've seen this coach online when it was for sale.
Do you have several dogs? And how do you like the fridge/freezer drawers?
I'm just curious.
Great question. The 3 stacked dog kennels are now a stacked washer/dryer (I picked Bosch 240V so the dryer has plenty of power, and they are super quiet). I had the conversion done by Kris Jones, Precision Coach Works in N. Florida, he did a great job of squeezing them in and made new doors that perfectly match the rest of the coach.

There is a large dog kennel that's cleverly integrated into the desk. I modified the door so that it attaches in one motion. We use it for our 2 Wheaten Terriers when traveling. I call it "The dog pound". They are close to us and in the same aircon zone, yet not under our feet (literally!).

The Sub-Zero Freezer drawers are pretty much the same as a normal household fridge/freezer. The fridge draws I like, but my wife would prefer a traditional style. I hate digging to the back of a normal fridge, but she prefers the front view of items.

Mick

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Old 07-31-2018, 01:18 PM   #87
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Great question. The 3 stacked dog kennels are now a stacked washer/dryer (I picked Bosch 240V so the dryer has plenty of power, and they are super quiet). I had the conversion done by Kris Jones, Precision Coach Works in N. Florida, he did a great job of squeezing them in and made new doors that perfectly match the rest of the coach.

There is a large dog kennel that's cleverly integrated into the desk. I modified the door so that it attaches in one motion. We use it for our 2 Wheaten Terriers when traveling. I call it "The dog pound". They are close to us and in the same aircon zone, yet not under our feet (literally!).

The Sub-Zero Freezer drawers are pretty much the same as a normal household fridge/freezer. The fridge draws I like, but my wife would prefer a traditional style. I hate digging to the back of a normal fridge, but she prefers the front view of items.

Mick

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Awesome! Thanks for the reply!
Beautiful coach! We hope to have a Newell in our future.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:44 PM   #88
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Not sure how accurate, but isx b50 [half rebuild before 750000 mile and 1/2 after 750000 miles. ] .Cat c-13 an c-15, b50, are 1000000 miles.
Don't think it apply to most most of us, unless your rock band does 100000 a year.
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:36 AM   #89
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We are leaving in the next week or two towards NIRVC in Dallas for our final warranty PDI and will put the 2017 Cornerstone up for sale at 13000 miles. We are considering a new king Aire or moving up to Miami,Oklahoma to look at used Newells. After 8 years in Submarines i look forward to the larger windows. That is why we are looking to upgrade. Best deal wins. "Just Burnin Diesel" on Facebook. Thanks!
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:32 AM   #90
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While I have never been in a submarine, I definitely appreciate your desire to have large windows, and we made the same change from a Monaco to a Prevost. Can't tell you how happy we are. There is so much more one gets with a Prevost, and that is quiet, superb turning radius, comfortable ride, high mechanical quality, and a beautiful coach to boot. To drive one is like nothing else, so be prepared to buy one.

What I recommend is to look at the 2005-2008 year range to get that sweet spot with reliability and price. When in Dallas, make sure to contact Chad Dupuis at Platinum Coach 337-789-1982 who found us a great coach and takes exceptional care after sale. I can't say enough about his work ethic and care. (right now, he is in Colorado, but don't let that get in your way) as he responds quickly and is definitely not afraid to travel, knows his products and has a great staff and shop in Dallas.

We got a 2006 Country Coach from him and tell him that Robert referred you.
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:14 AM   #91
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Even though a Newell was the right fit for us, there are some great coaches out there, including Entegra. I'd take a look at Foretravel, Prevost, and Newell. One of the best ways of doing that is through a dealer that stocks them call. I personally visited:
https://www.themotorcoachstore.com/u...a-fl--showroom
Luxury Pre-Owned Motorhome Dealer for Foretravel Newell Country Coach.
Gilbert Inventory Archives - Premium Coach Group

At these companies, you can walk into all these coaches and compare them side-by-side.
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:56 PM   #92
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Even though a Newell was the right fit for us, there are some great coaches out there, including Entegra. I'd take a look at Foretravel, Prevost, and Newell. One of the best ways of doing that is through a dealer that stocks them call. I personally visited:
https://www.themotorcoachstore.com/u...a-fl--showroom
Luxury Pre-Owned Motorhome Dealer for Foretravel Newell Country Coach.
Gilbert Inventory Archives - Premium Coach Group

At these companies, you can walk into all these coaches and compare them side-by-side.
I agree. Both the Motorcoach Store in FL, and Premium Coach Group in Gilbert AZ are first class operations run by great people. They always seem to have great coaches and generally price them fair. We purchased a coach from Chad at Premium Coach Group and the entire transaction was first class.
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Old 08-04-2018, 02:05 AM   #93
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I am new here and we do not have a motor home yet at all.

When reading the forums, I have thought about the philosophy of buying the last one first. And it is pretty obvious that upscale rigs like you guys are discussing and comparing would at least be quality. The attraction to something like a used Newell is that it overcomes the problem of the low quality of the generic rigs you see at the RV show!

I am trying to think of how to figure the real cost, like cost per year, cost per mile and maybe absolute cost over a acouple years. I can see that many people change coaches every few years. And the RV industry says so as well.

It seems that what you guys are talking about might be in the 5 hundred thousand dollar range, plus or minus 100k. (Seems like pre-owned Newells, and maybe newer Entegras mentioned above)

So, on the the rigs being discussed it seems that Newell is perhaps high at 4k per year PM, plus other things needing update.

A used Newell looks like it might depreciate less than a newer Entegra (like I saw compared above.) How much less I do not know.

But you have to figure about 40k a year for depreciation, that much again for the money, the PM cost 4k). Then maybe 20-40k per year for big renovation at that age. That is about a 100k a year ownership, if you figure over several years average. It seems you might not have to rebuild, and then you might get that back .....

It seems like other high end diesels could easily depreciate that much

One thing I am trying to figure out is whether it is better to buy even newer on the Newell, so as not to have to hold MORE money "in escrow", set aside for costly repairs. Of course then, more money is held up. (i.e., the carry charge) and more depreciation exposure.

The costly repairs you have to probably have on older coaches worry me also because when you get to ten years old you are really talking about really rebuilding, restoring replacing , and renovating - not just maintenance. No matter how much better good coaches are -- materials only last so long.

One question I have is whether you should just rebuild anything that could be rebuilt if we get a 10 year old rig? Change all the parts on air system, hydronic heater, all electrical you can get to, etc? That way at least you would not the same risk of breakdown on a 10 year old coach, right?
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:30 AM   #94
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A well thought out post above. I've been thinking along similar lines myself.

Have a look at Bus-Stuff Luxury Coaches For Sale for lots of older higher end coaches that have gone through upgrades & refits.

Some may dismiss a topic like this as out of reach for the common person. I choose to view it as I've worked hard, been careful with my spending and don't mind big stuff costing more if the value is there.
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:40 AM   #95
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FYI - Cummins has had their own checkered history with ISX engines and catastrophic failures! UPDATE: ISX 650 dropped a valve for the second time
The Cummins ISX 650 did have problems. It is no longer being manufactured. Their ISX 600 and the current 605 HP model have been very reliable.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:08 PM   #96
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Nicodemus, I agree. Any new coach is going to suffer large depreciation over the first few years. If you purchase a used Newell in the $500k range you have just avoided the first $1.5 mil in depreciation. If you purchase a used Cornerstone you can also avoid the first few years of depreciation, but on a different scale. On both coaches the depreciation slows considerably after the 5 year point.

An advantage to an older coach is there are fewer engine emissions systems on 2008 and older. Some coach manufacturers purchased large numbers of pre-emissions diesel engines and installed them in new coaches well into 2010.

I think $100k per year cost of ownership is too high for a used Newell and maybe too low for a new one. The higher end coaches do have much higher quality components and they will last longer than the "price point" production coaches.

The bottom line someone once said if you are studying cost of a motorhome you should just give up as they all depreciate and loose money in the end.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:34 PM   #97
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We completely remodeled our Newell, nearly front to back, paying inflated Newell prices, plus we replaced a leaking radiator. Our coach is ten years old. We spent under 100k for this.

I expect 3-10k in maintenance per year, depending on how much stuff I feel like doing vs paying Newell or someone else to do.

Honestly it is a rounding error pretty much. A new factory paint job would be about the most expensive thing you could decide to do (somewhere upwards of $60k, depending on the design!) and probably even a complete repowering would be somewhat less.

The CAT engines are so beefy and simple and also being babied with our coaches that they probably just laugh at us, even talking about it on the forum here.

100k per year is way too high for a 500k Newell and way too low for a 2M Newell.

Hope this helps. Donít analyze too much; just pick something within reason and go have fun.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:27 PM   #98
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Sure enough, my Newell is depreciating about $40k this year, I'm expecting $15-20k of maintenance & updates this year, but that includes cabinet changes to fit a washer/dryer that wasn't there before, replacing 8 AGM 8D batteries, factory service, etc., so I'd expect it to become more like $5-10k/yr on average. I'm happy to fix anything that's practical and low risk (no risk of taking us off the road).

If you can afford it or can borrow the money, it's more about the depreciation and risk, than it is about the purchase price. My observation is that depreciation is surprisingly similar across brands until you get to the 20+ year mark when some are junk and others still have useful life left. So does a $20k depreciation vehicle give you what you want or does the $40k have twice the value to you? To me, it was worth it, especially as I'm full-time and use this every day.

An alternative to paying cash and losing the opportunity cost, or getting a loan and paying the interest, is to place money in a high yield ETF to pay off the loan - it costs less.
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