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Old 02-10-2019, 12:01 PM   #15
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the blue interior and bumper with 291,000 miles is a head turner
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:45 PM   #16
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OP, I’m with you on a wooden interior and windows that open in a rig that handles well...I would also add 4 slides. Unless you are going to put 25000 miles a year I think a Previst is over rated. Yes in a rollover it will holdup better but doubt there will be much difference in a headon. There were 4 manufacturers that used a 10 airbag chassis...Prevost, Newell, Foretravel, and Monaco (not any more). A year ago I upgraded to a 08 45’ Navigator with 42K miles for the same price as the Prevost shell above. The 4 slideouts and large windows that open 50% in a rig that handles well is reason enough for me in a rig that is ready to go.

While I cannot find a price...something like this: OK, it could stand new LED smart TVs...$500.
http://www.bestpreownedrv.com/1175.html
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:29 PM   #17
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OP, I’m with you on a wooden interior and windows that open in a rig that handles well...I would also add 4 slides. Unless you are going to put 25000 miles a year I think a Previst is over rated. Yes in a rollover it will holdup better but doubt there will be much difference in a headon. There were 4 manufacturers that used a 10 airbag chassis...Prevost, Newell, Foretravel, and Monaco (not any more). A year ago I upgraded to a 08 45’ Navigator with 42K miles for the same price as the Prevost shell above. The 4 slideouts and large windows that open 50% in a rig that handles well is reason enough for me in a rig that is ready to go.

While I cannot find a price...something like this: OK, it could stand new LED smart TVs...$500.
2007 Holiday Rambler Navigator w/ 4 Slides 500 Diesel Cummins Wood Floors Warranty
Thank you. I really like this one. I did not know HR had the series 60. I am pretty sold on the Series 60 engine, both because I am convinced that is the best/easiest to maintain engine ever put in a motor-home and for nostalgic reasons (my father spent a substantial part of his career working on the design/development team for that engine. I am a bit sappy and it actually means a lot to me to drive a motor-home with "Dad's Engine" in it.). Also I do not want DEF.


We go back and forth between the Monaco/Beaver (and HR) and the higher end more solid bus conversions. We also need to look at American Coach I think. Possibly some others.

I think there is more to the beefiness of the bus conversions than just accident safety. They will hold up better overall. Less vibration, fewer things to come apart. No frame alignment failure. Little likelihood of leaks etc. Also I think the slide outs will likely work longer/better because they have a more sturdy base to extend from.

My wife likes the more solid feel of them. One of her concerns and the reason she has pretty well killed the 5th wheel idea is she does not want a home that feels insubstantial and shakes around when you walk or in windy weather.

However I have yet to see one Prevost, Newell or Realm that I like the interior as much as the HR you posted. (although I would change out the couches for cloth upholstery before I would worry about the TVs). One thing i dislike about many Motorhomes is the giant TV that sits between the Passenger and river in the front. This one folds down from the ceiling and tucks away when not in use, I like that. I also really like having both seats swivel and become part of the living area which the sturdier bus brands do not seem to allow. OTOH given we will be looking at a fairly old Motorhome, the steel one piece buses are much more appealing after years of bouncing over potholes and all of the roads seem to be getting worse in the USA.

I have seen a few bluebirds that we like more than the other brands inside, but not as much as Monaco/Beaver (and this HR). The higher end motor-homes from the time periods we are interested in seem obsessed with laminates, plastic, chrome, and mirrors everywhere. That is why we are looking at the possibility of getting a bus type that is all beat up inside and just gut it and re-do it. I have a close friend who is the absolute best custom cabinet maker I have ever seen. If I can afford it, I would love to have him build out a Prevost or Bluebird for us from scratch. I would have him use quartersawn oak which I love.

A new concerns about the better bus made motor-homes is many of them seem to be very heavy and some are pretty near their weight limit. I prefer to not have to worry about weight limits. It seems silly to have a nice wood interior and then have to use all plastic items inside because of weight limits.

I have not been able to do a comparison, but I am pretty sure the Prevost/Newell/bluebird class of motorhomes drives and handles substantially better than the Monaco and its siblings. However I am just going by what people say on the internet and a couple of salesmen. I am not sure there are very many places we can go test drive a Provost and then a Beaver Marquis or a Monaco Signature.

Does HR have an equivalent of the Signature/Marquis?
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post

Does HR have an equivalent of the Signature/Marquis?
Yes, it is the Holiday Rambler Navigator!!! Beautiful coaches.

Mark
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:05 AM   #19
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Mr Mark should be able to tell us if there is any substantial difference in the handling of his 06 Monaco Dynasty and his 2015 Prevost even though there is a 15,000 lbs difference in weight. His axle weights are probably 17K F, 24K D, and 13K tag...54K lbs. Having owned a 04 Dynasty for 14 years and 88K miles, it did not bounce down the road and nothing came loose. I would stay away from Beaver DPs that use Cat engines only and the big 04-09 Cat Acert engines gave plenty of problems.

The only reason I upgraded was because my son wanted my Dynasty instead of a new Class C...the things we do for out kids that have turned out well. I went with another Monaco product because of no major repairs and excellent handling with the RR10S chassis plus last winter, when I looked at new DPs, I was surprised how heavy most were with eight 315 tires and steering tag axle...to much weight on it to lift and grossly overload the drive axle. The lack of quality...poor fit and finish and proud price tags confirmed I wanted a 10 year old Monaco. I would have gone older and gotten a Detroit engine (no 08s with a Detroit) BUT our snowbird park has a dumb 10 year rule. Now that I've brought it in, it can stay for ever.

I still put in multiple 14 hour days...1500 miles between GA and CO in 2 days because these big Monaco's handle that well. After the first few hours behind the wheel of my "new" ride I had to stop and adjust the TRW steering box as it had 2" of slop in it. Took all of 3 minutes to adjust on the first try and I proceeded to put another 15 hours in.

There were 3 big Monaco's, Dynasty, Executive, and Signature but only 2 big HR's, Scepter and Navigator. While a HR Navigator is considered to be between a Monaco Exe and Sig, our Navigator with $55K of options is on par with any Sig I've looked at. Took a little getting used to the radar cruise control it has that even on the shortest distance keeps me further back that normal...maybe a good thing.

I replaced the 36" LCD TV up front with a 50" smart LED TV that does not stick out enough for my shoulder to hit...I'm 6'4". Have to admit the higher ceiling of the Navigator over our Dynasty is nice and it makes room for a 12V fan over the bed.

Prices for the 06-09 big Monaco's are all over the place with some wanting $250K for a 08 Signature. I paid $165K a year ago for our 08 Navigator and I replaced 4 year old cracking Michelin's with new 315 Continental on the front.
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:44 AM   #20
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Hello Ivylog!

To answer a couple of questions....
Yes, our '08 Monaco Dynasty (42') drove nice at 40,039 lbs. Our Cummins did have the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and did not give us any trouble in 7 yrs. and 69,000 miles.

The Prevost definitely drives more solid and is very quiet on the inside although the Dynasty was fairly quiet too. Of course on rough surfaces, any coach will feel that.

In comparison, the Prevost has very easy power steering and appears to glide down the road and is not affected by passing trucks at all. I have no complaints with the Dynasty as was good too with passing trucks. In the Prevost, our driver's seat is an air operated seat that acts as a shock absorber to soften dips in the road.

I had the windshield on the Dynasty pop out a couple of times from hydraulic levelers not working correctly. The right rear would not stop and raise the corner too high causing the frame to twist.

Our Prevost Axle ratings..
Steering 19,000 lbs.
Drive 22,500 lbs.
Tag 14,000 lbs.
----------------------
Total 55,500 lbs.

We have 365 tires on the steer and tag and 315's on the drive axle. Michelin is the only manufacturer of the 365 tire (as far as I know). We have air leveling only.

Safe travels,
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Old 02-28-2019, 04:49 PM   #21
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Dang, missed your weight by 1500 lbs and I started to put 18K for the front axle which would’ve gotten me down to 500 lbs off. The 15K difference was only off by 400* lbs...not to bad.

My Navigator is 5000 lbs heavier than the Dynasty with the drive axle at 22K lbs...turning on the “Truck must enter scales” sign on the weigh stations with “weighing on the fly”. I wave with all fingers as I blow on by.
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:49 AM   #22
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A few points not made above:

1. Availability of parts for a Prevost is far superior to any production motorhome.

2. Cost of parts for a Prevost is often far less than production coaches if they are even available. Volume makes a big difference. Windshields and radiators are a few examples.

3. Monaco, Beaver, Country Coach and Safari are out of business. Propriatary parts may be impossible to get. Tiffin will not service coaches older than 2 years. Prevost will work on any year coach, and they have parts. Marathon, Liberty and Featherlite are still in business and presumably doing well.

4. A 2000 Production coach will look like a 2000 production coach. Unless you really know Prevosts, you will have a hard time telling a 2000 Prevost from a 2020 Prevost.

5. Prevost have a number of service centers around the U.S. and Canada. Marathon has three service centers in the U.S. Finding a place to service an older production coach will be a challenge.

6. Prevosts are built as a complete integrated shell. Production motorhomes are built as a house on a frame.

7. Outfitting a shell from scratch is not for the fainthearted. Cabinets can be done by a lot of folks, but building a total conversion to include heating, AC, plumbing, electrical etc. involves a lot that would be better done by professionals. Outfitting a shell like the one for sale by Stahley in Nashville, could easily approach $500k if done properly. A homebuilt conversion could be difficult to sell.
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:33 PM   #23
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Actually an engine that uses DEF has less emission problems than one that only has a DPF. Also gets better mileage. Converting your own Prevost is a waste of money. The unit will have little value. BTW: What is a Nelson transmission?? Do you mean Allison?
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:52 AM   #24
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[QUOTE=Peralko;4680134]A few points not made above:

1. Availability of parts for a Prevost is far superior to any production motorhome. I did not know MHs needed parts so often?

2. Cost of parts for a Prevost is often far less than production coaches if they are even available. Volume makes a big difference. Windshields and radiators are a few examples. Have not needed either and doubt a new windshield is less than my insurance deductible.

3. Monaco, Beaver, Country Coach and Safari are out of business. Propriatary parts may be impossible to get. Tiffin will not service coaches older than 2 years. Prevost will work on any year coach, and they have parts. Marathon, Liberty and Featherlite are still in business and presumably doing well. About the only "Proprietary" parts are the front/rear caps...have not need one and most are fiberglass that can be repaired instead of replacing.

4. A 2000 Production coach will look like a 2000 production coach. Unless you really know Prevosts, you will have a hard time telling a 2000 Prevost from a 2020 Prevost. So I spend 2 million on a new coach and you cannot tell it from a $100K one...serves you right.

5. Prevost have a number of service centers around the U.S. and Canada. Marathon has three service centers in the U.S. Finding a place to service an older production coach will be a challenge. Doubt most repairs on either a Prevost or a production coach are done at a service center.

6. Prevosts are built as a complete integrated shell. Production motorhomes are built as a house on a frame. Agree most are but the big Monaco's were semi-monocoque...not a house added to a frame.

7. Outfitting a shell from scratch is not for the fainthearted. Cabinets can be done by a lot of folks, but building a total conversion to include heating, AC, plumbing, electrical etc. involves a lot that would be better done by professionals. Outfitting a shell like the one for sale by Stahley in Nashville, could easily approach $500k if done properly. A homebuilt conversion could be difficult to sell.[/QUOTEYep, it's hard to add a house to a shell that was not designed to hold one..especially slideouts Can I get 4 slides in a 5 year old Prevost?


OP, I'm glad you like your 19 year old non slide Prevost that costs more than my rig below and will have 3 times the miles...use.


So, without looking at my signature, how old is my rig???

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Old 03-17-2019, 07:56 AM   #25
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Ivylog, with all due respect, many points made by Peralko are correct. I enjoy your posts as you have good information, this post just doesn't sound like you.

Every motorhome will need parts from time to time. The Prevost service centers are all well stocked and support many model years of Prevosts. Since Prevost changed the engine from the Detroit Diesel to Volvo, and if you have a DD, you would have to go to a Detroit Diesel shop for engine work.

Windshields for Prevosts run $400-$600 per side (they run sales sometimes). My brother just had his Tiffin full windshield replaced, cost was $4,000 (insurance covered).

One problem that you might run into is with the Roadmaster chassis as it's not made anymore. Of course all things can be repaired if you can find the right shop but that could be difficult.

And Peralko is totally right, the service center is a FULL service center servicing everything related to the bus shell, even collision repairs. And from experience, they get you in and out as quickly as possible as these centers are geared towards the bus transportation market. Time is money for these seated buses, as Prevost coach owners, we get the benefit for that type of service.

A semi-monocoque chassis is nothing like the integrity of a Prevost shell, I'm surprised that you said that. We have real front and rear bumpers and steel cross-members under the windshield and through-out the side walls. The semi-monocoque that Monaco uses is an added to the slab frame. On our Dynasty, all of the large pieces were placed in the coach before the slides were put in.

And yes, you can get four slides in a 5 yr. old Prevost because our shell was built in 2014 so we are 5 yrs. old. There is a reason why a 19 yr. old Prevost with appropriate miles will still be around, it's built with amazingly robust parts. You need to look at the suspension parts of a Prevost chassis compared to a regular coach.

Ivylog, you have a beautiful coach and it does look much younger than it's age. Prevosts don't change the shell too often and when they do, it's only slight updates. Seems like about every 12-15 yrs. they reshape the shell. Many people will buy the updated light kits to refreshen a 20 yr. old coach. (LED rear lights and Halogen headlights).

Safe travels,
Mark

PS. Per and I both had regular production coaches, he had a Country Coach and we had the Dynasty.
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:34 PM   #26
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Ivylog,
I'm very happy for you that you have a motorhome that will never need parts. you are definitely unique among all the motorhome owners I have ever talked or corresponded with.
Hopefully you will never need to replace your windshield or radiator. My friend was not as lucky with his 2005 CC Allure. He had to replace both. Windshield was over $5,000, and the radiator had to be custom made. In each case he had to wait weeks on delivery. Like Mr. Mark said, windshields are usually covered by insurance. On initial inspection, our radiator had to be replaced. Prevost had it in stock, and it was about $1,000 less expensive than my friend's radiator.
If you think the front and rear caps are the only proprietary items on your coach, you are in for a rude awakening down the line. I tried for years to fix the Jake brake on our CC Affinity. The problem was in the --wait for it---proprietary CC wiring. None of the various shops that looked at it was able to fix, including Country Coach. The level indicator for the fresh water tank was same thing--the problem was in the proprietary CC circuit board.
Some how it doesn't seem to bother the folks with the ability to spend more than $2M on their coach that their coaches for the most part have the same body style as older Prevosts--new Prevost conversions are sold about as fast as the builder can build them--go figure! Of course every Prevost conversion has a unique paint job.
You only have to go to a Prevost service center to see all the conversion coaches getting worked on. Freightliner shops are not very enthused about working on motorhomes--I don't know if Spartan has service centers. That's before you talk about the proprietary chassis that are no longer in production.
Funny you should bring up the "semi-monocoque" construction. We visited the Monaco factory in 1993 and saw how Monacos were built. They started out building the chassis as a truss assembly. The guide took pride in the fact you could push down on the end of the chassis, and the whole chassis would sway up and down in ripples. It also had a large upward bow in the middle, which they straightened out before attaching the sidewalls. They didn't use fiberglass in those days--they imported a laminate from Germany for the sidewalls. In those days, before slides, they had a semblance of justification to use the term semi-monocoque. Once you incorporate large, up to four large holes in the side of the shell, there is no longer enough structural strength in the shell to warrant the use of the term.

Look, I'm glad you are happy with your coach, and I hope you have many trouble-free miles. We were very happy with our 1995 CC Affinity, and put around 125,000 miles on it, but when we chose to upgrade, beside the Prevost ride, the proximity of both a Prevost center, and a Marathon Center was a big consideration in our selection. We had two major breakdowns in or Affinity, so service access was very important to us. With just the two of us, we have never seen the need for slides, and the features of our coach made it a no-brainer for us. But I admit, a Prevost is not for everyone.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:17 PM   #27
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I had many production coaches and after that 4 Bluebird Wanderlodges.
Now I have a 22 year old Prevost and it wins hands down from the others. I can pull into any Prevost center and say " X" part is broken and instead of taking 10 hours to see what X part is, they know exactly what and where to find and replace that part.
I waited 30 years to get a Prevost and like the old Curtis Mathis tv ads of decades ago- Darn well worth it.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:11 PM   #28
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Ernie,
Hope you and your business are doing well!
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