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Old 07-30-2013, 10:10 AM   #15
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I think you will get different info from different people. Seems to be quite common when asking questions at a DVS (Driver Vehicle Services) office. I'm not a commercial vehicle enforcement officer, but I know a couple in MN. I'm a cop in St. Paul. What I have to offer I'm sure somebody else will say is wrong. Oh well. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter how much (or little) weight you actually weigh. If the truck manufacturer says the GVWR on the truck is 34k lbs. (not uncommon for a tandem axle tractor) then that's what you need to be licensed to drive. In MN a class D (normal dl that everybody starts out with) is limited to 26k lbs single unit. Now, if you found a single drive axle day cab rated at 26k gvwr I'm pretty sure you can drive that with a class D. You would need air brake endorsement though. In MN the class D allows you to pull a trailer that is rated under 10k lbs. But, if the trailer is a recreational vehicle trailer (camper) there is no weight limit. So, you could do what you want to do, I think. Now, if you get a truck rated over that magical 26k lbs. all bets are off. Unless you outfit the truck with enough equipment to register it as an RV or motorhome. Here's the portion of MN statute 168.002 that might apply:
Subd. 17.Motor home.

(a) "Motor home" means a recreational vehicle designed to provide temporary living quarters. The motor home has a living unit built into as an integral part of, or permanently attached to the chassis of, a motor vehicle or van.
(b) A motor home must contain permanently installed, independent, life-support systems that meet the American National Standards Institute standard number A119.2 for recreational vehicles and provide at least four of the following facilities, two of which must be from the systems listed in clauses (1), (5), and (6): (1) a cooking facility with liquid propane gas supply, (2) a refrigerator, (3) a self-contained toilet or a toilet connected to a plumbing system with a connection for external water disposal, (4) a heating or air conditioning system separate from the motor vehicle engine, (5) a potable water supply system including a sink with a faucet either self-contained or with connections for an external source, and (6) a separate 110-125 volts electrical power supply.
(c) For purposes of this subdivision, "permanently installed" means built into or attached as an integral part of a chassis or van, and designed not to be removed except for repair or replacement. A system that is readily removable or held in place by clamps or tie-downs is not permanently installed.
(d) Motor homes include a:
(1) type A motor home, which is a raw chassis upon which is built a driver's compartment and an entire body that provides temporary living quarters as described in paragraph (b);
(2) type B motor home, which is a van that conforms to the description in paragraph (b) and has been completed or altered by a final-stage manufacturer; and
(3) type C motor home, which is an incomplete vehicle upon which is permanently attached a body designed to provide temporary living quarters as described in paragraph (b).
(e) A motor vehicle with a slip-in camper or other removable equipment that is mounted into or on a motor vehicle is not a motor home, is not a recreational vehicle, and must not be registered as a recreational vehicle under section 168.013.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:40 AM   #16
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As long as you are not operating the vehicle in any commercial manner, in furtherance of any commercial venture, there's no need for anything other than a class D license in MN. Under 26k lbs. tow veh. and under 10k lbs. trailer or any weight RV trailer.

Lets' talk about your question regarding registering in another state? I can't find it now but I know that a law firm in Mont. specializing in LLC and recreational vehicle law told me that there is a MN law that says if the veh. is physically in MN for 30 consecutive days it must be licensed and registered in MN. How a cop could enforce that law is beyond me. How could he/she go into court and testify that the veh. never left the state for that 30 day period? Still, it could create a problem and ethically it would require you to drive the veh. out of the state at least once every 30 days. I see rv's in MN that have Mont. plates and I'm pretty sure they stay in MN for over 30 days at a time.

I've also seen plenty of tractors with rv plates on them that I know for sure don't have the required rv items to run those plates. There might be some cops that care about it and would tag you, but I don't know any.

So, now you have more info to confuse you and make your decision harder or easier.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:06 AM   #17
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Bob,

Correct me if I'm wrong, I got most my info from ms 168 and 171 if I remember correctly, but if the gvw is 26k on a single you can't pull a trailer at all, other than an rv. The other thing I noticed is there is no air endorsement in mn, only a class a air restriction. But it says any vehicle under the 26k, any vehicle including air brakes, except transporting more than 15 people, or hazardous materials, can be operated with a class d.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:21 AM   #18
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Bob

Sorry I forgot to thank you for the info. About the gvw, it's titled weight is what I understand matters, I was under the impression when an officer is checking that information he is looking at the registration not the sticker inside the door, the sticker is in no way an official state document. The manufacturer will title an m2 any where from 26 to 32, including the sticker, but they have identical equipment. I also think the law is pretty backwards in the sense that I can take a ford ranger and slap some giant 20k rv on the back and be legal, but they make it impossible to use adequate equipment to safely transport them.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:28 AM   #19
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I can't correct you because I might be wrong too. But, I read it differently in MN statute 171.02 Sub 2 you should read this:

(c) Class D drivers' licenses are valid for:
(1) operating all farm trucks if the farm truck is:
(i) controlled and operated by a farmer, including operation by an immediate family member or an employee of the farmer;
(ii) used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies, including hazardous materials, to or from a farm;
(iii) not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier as governed by Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, part 365; and
(iv) used within 150 miles of the farm;
(2) notwithstanding paragraph (b), operating an authorized emergency vehicle, as defined in section 169.011, subdivision 3, whether or not in excess of 26,000 pounds gross vehicle weight;
(3) operating a recreational vehicle as defined in section 168.002, subdivision 27, that is operated for personal use;
(4) operating all single-unit vehicles except vehicles with a gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds, vehicles designed to carry more than 15 passengers including the driver, and vehicles that carry hazardous materials;
(5) notwithstanding paragraph (d), operating a type A school bus or a multifunction school activity bus without a school bus endorsement if the requirements of subdivision 2a are satisfied, as determined by the commissioner;
(6) operating any vehicle or combination of vehicles when operated by a licensed peace officer while on duty; and
(7) towing vehicles if:
(i) the towed vehicles have a gross vehicle weight of 10,000 pounds or less; or
(ii) the towed vehicles have a gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 pounds and the combination of vehicles has a gross vehicle weight of 26,000 pounds or less.

Rea (7) very closely. I see that it allows you to tow any trailer as long as it's under 10k lbs. Or, if the trailer is over 10k then the combination must be under 26k. Further, if you go back up to (3) you might notice no weight limit mentioned for an rv.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:36 AM   #20
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Yes, I agree with you about being "able" to tug a huge 5ver down the road with a Ranger. Most cops that I know (and I know quite a few) don't pay any attention to that stuff. Likewise, a guy using a huge HDT pulling his 5ver I bet would attract the same amount of non-attention. The only guys that would pay any attention are the commercial vehicle enforcement guys. But, they only care until they figure out if you are doing anything commercial. If you truly aren't doing anything commercial they're outa there. If you are doing any little bit of commercial with it watch out.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob86ZZ4
(7) towing vehicles if:
(i) the towed vehicles have a gross vehicle weight of 10,000 pounds or less; or
(ii) the towed vehicles have a gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 pounds and the combination of vehicles has a gross vehicle weight of 26,000 pounds or less.

Rea (7) very closely. I see that it allows you to tow any trailer as long as it's under 10k lbs. Or, if the trailer is over 10k then the combination must be under 26k. Further, if you go back up to (3) you might notice no weight limit mentioned for an rv.
The vernacular is very tricky, it is kinda giving multiple answers, it says any single unit up to 26k, any combination up to 26k, any trailer up to 10k plus 26k single unit, and a trailer larger than 10k not exceeding a combined 26k.

Ayeyayeyaye

Im rarely in mn, btw, I just have a property. I never stay anywhere for more than a month or two, we are 100% full time.

I'm working on finding info about derating a vehicle, so far I have a pretty mixed bag
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:10 PM   #22
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So, the only reason to register it in MN is if our laws work best for you. Keep researching. You might find another state that has even better laws for your use. I'd look hard at Montana to avoid that sales tax. But I have no idea what their license laws are like.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:20 PM   #23
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So far it seems Oklahoma I easiest, you don't have to make any changes to the vehicle to license as a pt
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:55 PM   #24
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If a Personal Truck registration works for you, then Texas would also suffice. No changes to the truck are required for Personal Truck registration. You would, however, have to have an Exempt Class A Drivers License (non-commercial use only, exempt from medical card/log books/fuel taxes/etc.), regardless of GVWR/GCWR, since the combination exceeds 26k and the trailer exceeds 10k, but no air brake endorsement, even though the vehicle has air brakes.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:37 PM   #25
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This is frustrating, I have been scouring hhrv and escapees, I have found many relevant posts by people, but the info I'm after is incomplete and the threads are stale.

Bob
I noticed that in mn we only have cdl above a class d, if I decided to make it easier and upgrade my license to legally drive the truck without modification am I still subject to log books, medical card, and fuel tax?

The 5er is an rv, so it is erroneous and the cargo trailer is under 10k, would a class b suffice?

I will have to title and reg it in another state, because it has been used commercially, and you can't change it to a pt in mn. I'm not sure if mn would recognize the change if I did then try to transfer the title to mn.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:42 PM   #26
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If a Personal Truck registration works for you, then Texas would also suffice. No changes to the truck are required for Personal Truck registration. You would, however, have to have an Exempt Class A Drivers License (non-commercial use only, exempt from medical card/log books/fuel taxes/etc.), regardless of GVWR/GCWR, since the combination exceeds 26k and the trailer exceeds 10k, but no air brake endorsement, even though the vehicle has air brakes.
I wouldn't be apposed to changing which state my dl is in. I have residence in mn and I'm not sure how that would work if I tried to get a license in a state with more lenient statutes, ie MT SD(or is it ND), OK seems to be pretty good too.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:47 PM   #27
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Like I said before, I'm trying to check out threads that pertain to the m2, because most of them are not reg as a MH, and it seems they get flooded with posts from folks with hdt's as MH, and there is little relevant discussion, even on the mdt forums. Is there anyone out there with an m2 106? I suppose I should start an m2 106 thread.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:36 AM   #28
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I wouldn't be apposed to changing which state my dl is in. I have residence in mn and I'm not sure how that would work if I tried to get a license in a state with more lenient statutes, ie MT SD(or is it ND), OK seems to be pretty good too.
When I posted about Texas offering the option of registering as a private truck, I presumed that you were looking at your registration options with the intention of establishing your domicile in whatever state you ultimately decided was the most favorable as far as registration. If you intend instead to remain domiciled in Minnesota, your only option as far as keeping your Minnesota drivers license but registering your truck elsewhere is probably going to be utilizing an LLC, and the most popular state for that has traditionally been Montana.

From a legal standpoint, states typically issue personal registrations for only two reasons: either you're domiciled there, or you're not domiciled there but the vehicle in question is principally garaged at an address there. They are unlikely to be willing to allow registration for any other purpose. Therefore, if you intend to remain legally domiciled in Minnesota and won't be "garaging" your truck at a specific address in any other state for any significant amount of time, then your only legal registration option will be to do so in Minnesota, even if the laws there are unfavorable to your situation. Only if you're willing to relocate your legal domicile to another state will you be able to legally register your truck, in your name, in that other state.

The LLC situation is different, because the corporate entity doesn't have to be domiciled where you are.
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