Community Forums

Chysm60 · 06-24-2017, 02:20 PM

Hi all! I have a couple of questions for whoever can help me with. 1st., why does my 2002 workhorse chassis have 2 receiver dryers? 2nd, why does my 2002 workhorse chassis have connections for R134 and R12 gages? 3rd., does the engine a/c system need both the GM condenser and the BEHR condenser (aftermarket kit)? 4th., is there a motorhome grave yard where I can purchase certain a/c hoses? I have a bad high pressure port that is leaking.

Thank you for answering!

Ken

CJ7365 · 06-24-2017, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chysm60

Hi all! I have a couple of questions for whoever can help me with. 1st., why does my 2002 workhorse chassis have 2 receiver dryers? 2nd, why does my 2002 workhorse chassis have connections for R134 and R12 gages? 3rd., does the engine a/c system need both the GM condenser and the BEHR condenser (aftermarket kit)? 4th., is there a motorhome grave yard where I can purchase certain a/c hoses? I have a bad high pressure port that is leaking.

Thank you for answering!

Ken

Hmmmm looks like you have 2 systems, manufactures stopped using R12 I believe in 1993, so maybe someone added the R12 system.

You should only have one receiver/drier, looks like this https://www.comfortairgr.com/shop/re...vcs-054-00139/

and one condenser.

You can have new A/C hoses made at a local A/C hydraulic shop, probably better then trying to get it at a junk yard.

Chysm60 · 06-24-2017, 07:26 PM

Yes, you are correct, there is only one receiver dryer. I made the mistake. However, there are still two condensers on the system. Are they both needed. Also, I have attached some pics of my system and in a couple of pics you can see the port for the R134, cover off and the port for R12. In the system, there are two of each of these ports, one each for the high side and one each for the low side. Also in some of the pics you can see the A/C lines coming off the two condensers and the manufacture of the added condenser. All these item were with the motorhome when I purchased it new in 2002. My wife and I had to wait at the dealer for it to arrive from the Damon manufacture so we could drive it home that day. We weren't taking any chances, we lost our new 2001 at the dealership when there facility burned down and it took us a year for the insurance to see there way to getting us a new unit. They wanted to repair the old one, but that wasn't going to happen. Michigan law says that the replacement unit has to be as good as the original or better.

Now one in the Saginaw, Michigan area will make a new A/C hose as you mentioned. I don't know why, I called all the stores and repair facilities that I could find with no result.

Thanks for your input!

Ken

CJ7365 · 06-24-2017, 07:35 PM

Are you sure you are not mistaken another A/C condenser with the automatic trans cooler.

Here is what the system looks like. As you can see there are a couple of coolers that are incorporated with the A/C condenser.

In the bottom photo, that blue hose goes to your automatic trans cooler
I am not seeing the R12 ports, and it clearly stats that you have 134R refrigerant.

https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Work...sm-?filter=201

CJ7365 · 06-24-2017, 07:45 PM

The red arrow pointing at that valve, I believe is a valve where you can close off the line, so you could change your compressor with out losing your refrigerant, at least that's what the cover looks like, if you take the plastic cover off, you will see a square stub where you could use a cresent wrench to turn it. I do not think that is an R12 connector.

It makes no sense to have 2 different connection for 2 different refrigerants. Your RV is too new to have R12 ports.

kennersonf · 06-24-2017, 08:16 PM

Back in 2002 and 2003 there was a problem with the A/C not cooling very well on some motorhomes. Workhorse put out a kit that included an auxiliary condenser and electric fan that worked in conjunction with the original equipment. I have that kit so my motorhome has two condensers and three electric fans. You may have that kit.

boatman10 · 06-25-2017, 05:40 AM

your leak in the high pressure port is just a Schrader valve, which can be changed out just like a valve on a bicycle tire, tho you will lose your charge.

the most common leak in this system is the 'o ring' under the low pressure cut off switch.

there are many kits and other AC and refridgeration systems that have R12 type ports but are R134a never the less, and you surely do not have 2 different gases.

some early 134a systems had undersized condensers, especially for idling in 110 degree conditions.

Now we have the new 1234yf gas........which my AC buddys have dubbed the '1-2-3-4 you're F'd' for many reasons.......starting with its $70/lb!

Chysm60 · 06-25-2017, 05:47 AM

Yes, I agree that it should not have both types of ports. However I believe that it was old new stock parts that were used. It was explained to me that way once before at the Cummins repair facility. I've actually have had the Behr condenser out and had to have it repaired. It was leaking just after the third year of ownership. The big question is why does it have two condensers in it? Did it really need that much volume to work well.

I do know that there are valves under the caps, but I have never had to use them yet. I've had 4 leaks already including changing the compressor and all the Freon has been out of the system.

I have found a new line for the high pressure side coming off the compressor and going to the Behr condenser. The cost is $190.00. I have not been able to find it cheaper as of yet. I need to call a facility out of state, they claim to have the proper line also but have no price on the net.

Thanks all!

Ken

Chysm60 · 06-25-2017, 11:38 AM

Thanks Boatman, the valve on a 134 system is not always a Schrader valve. The type of valves that I have on my system is just a round rubber type ball inside the valve head that cannot be changed out. The ball is installed and then the valve is static welded together so the ball is not effected by heat that is generated by conventional means of soldering. I also know that I do not have two types of freon in the system.

As far as getting the newer type of freon in my system, I do not need to worry yet. I have access to R134 whenever I need it. First, its readily available and will not be leaving the market for some time yet. Second, I have a license to purchase R12 if I ever need to, and third I have a good friend who has an HVAC business where I will still be able to get R134 even after it goes off the market. I am not new to A/C systems. I started repairing R12 systems in the seventies, and been working on R134 systems ever since. I have a class 1,2,3, and 4 license for commercial heating and cooling systems. This system is just a mess. I have never seen where they had both kind of valves in one system. From what I know, it's not suppose to be even legal, from factory, to have R12 valves on a R134 system unless you have converted an old R12 system to a R134.

I have also never seen a system where there has been more than one condenser in it. Usually on commercial system the complete condenser would be changed out for a larger unit instead of adding another one. This is just poor quality and should not have been done this way. I'm not being sarcastic here, it's just I am upset of the poor quality of workmanship of the GM company in the first place. If there was a problem with the system from the beginning, GM should have corrected it or had a recall on the system to fix it properely. As you can guess, I am not a GM fan. GM is overrated and they put out a lot of junk. Unfortunately I had no choice of the chassis in this motorhome. Ford had the V10 which had a lot of problems also and I know from experience that the 8.1 l GM engine has more torque to pull than the V10. It may not show it on paper, but in reality on real driving experience the V10 just doesn't have the power on long hills pulling a trailer. I have actually had to slow down for my friends with there V10 engine motorhomes so they could keep up with me.

Sorry about ragging on the GM system, I just had to vent so people know that they are not the only ones have issues with GM chassis. For me it was one thing after another. First, the fuel pump after only 6,000 miles. Then the brakes after only 5 years and 11,000 miles, and then the A/C system for the last 4 years. Then I had the parking brake issue with the pressure valves (2 of them) changed twice each so far. And we can't forget about the ignition system that was underrated and over taxed by the electrical system. I am just so happy I came across this forum for the help I needed. (This is my first motorhome) Every time I turn around it seems to be something else. However, there is a bright side. Everything I fix should not be a problem again except for normal wear and the parking brake system. I keep extra pressure sensors for the parking brake with me in case one goes bad on the road. I've heard some real horror stories about the parking brake system on this site.

Thanks for the input Boatman!

Ken

Charlie 5320 · 07-08-2017, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chysm60

Thanks Boatman, the valve on a 134 system is not always a Schrader valve. The type of valves that I have on my system is just a round rubber type ball inside the valve head that cannot be changed out. The ball is installed and then the valve is static welded together so the ball is not effected by heat that is generated by conventional means of soldering. I also know that I do not have two types of freon in the system.

As far as getting the newer type of freon in my system, I do not need to worry yet. I have access to R134 whenever I need it. First, its readily available and will not be leaving the market for some time yet. Second, I have a license to purchase R12 if I ever need to, and third I have a good friend who has an HVAC business where I will still be able to get R134 even after it goes off the market. I am not new to A/C systems. I started repairing R12 systems in the seventies, and been working on R134 systems ever since. I have a class 1,2,3, and 4 license for commercial heating and cooling systems. This system is just a mess. I have never seen where they had both kind of valves in one system. From what I know, it's not suppose to be even legal, from factory, to have R12 valves on a R134 system unless you have converted an old R12 system to a R134.

I have also never seen a system where there has been more than one condenser in it. Usually on commercial system the complete condenser would be changed out for a larger unit instead of adding another one. This is just poor quality and should not have been done this way. I'm not being sarcastic here, it's just I am upset of the poor quality of workmanship of the GM company in the first place. If there was a problem with the system from the beginning, GM should have corrected it or had a recall on the system to fix it properely. As you can guess, I am not a GM fan. GM is overrated and they put out a lot of junk. Unfortunately I had no choice of the chassis in this motorhome. Ford had the V10 which had a lot of problems also and I know from experience that the 8.1 l GM engine has more torque to pull than the V10. It may not show it on paper, but in reality on real driving experience the V10 just doesn't have the power on long hills pulling a trailer. I have actually had to slow down for my friends with there V10 engine motorhomes so they could keep up with me.

Sorry about ragging on the GM system, I just had to vent so people know that they are not the only ones have issues with GM chassis. For me it was one thing after another. First, the fuel pump after only 6,000 miles. Then the brakes after only 5 years and 11,000 miles, and then the A/C system for the last 4 years. Then I had the parking brake issue with the pressure valves (2 of them) changed twice each so far. And we can't forget about the ignition system that was underrated and over taxed by the electrical system. I am just so happy I came across this forum for the help I needed. (This is my first motorhome) Every time I turn around it seems to be something else. However, there is a bright side. Everything I fix should not be a problem again except for normal wear and the parking brake system. I keep extra pressure sensors for the parking brake with me in case one goes bad on the road. I've heard some real horror stories about the parking brake system on this site.

Thanks for the input Boatman!

Ken

My 03 has the same stupid type of fitting, and yes it is leaking. I ordered a valve replacement kit made by dorman. You cut the old valve out and replace it with this kit. Mine will be here tuesday.

https://www.carid.com/dorman/dorman-...411410637.html

Mine was 1/2 in measured with a dial caliper. At least yours still have those caps installed. All of mine are missing, and the system can leak around those valves. I pulled mine down and recharged it and when I took the high side fitting off I had refrigerant coming out of that fitting with no schrader valve in it.

tmw188 · 07-09-2017, 05:45 AM

Did they resolve any of these issues with later models? I have an 05 W24?

Charlie 5320 · 07-09-2017, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmw188

Did they resolve any of these issues with later models? I have an 05 W24?

Don't know, but I do know the hose with the service port on mine isn't available anymore, and the superseded one looks to have the service port in the wrong position. The cheapest I've found that hose is $184.00, for a 2 ft hose. The fellow I bought this coach from told me he had to have the ac charged every year he has had the coach. He bought it from the original owner in 06, so it has probably been leaking since it was new. Almost every coach that I've looked at over the years has had trouble with the dash air. My 95 Challenger was the only coach that I've had in the last 20 years that didn't need work on the dash air. They sure could have put these service ports in a better location. On mine you either pull the hood off or crawl up behind the front end, I have found that is the easiest to do, but I'm almost TOO fat. I've really have to suck it in to get in and out, and still get my arms all scratched up. Being on blood thinner don't help, but it washes off.

ROAquaman · 07-11-2017, 06:15 AM

Hello all,
I had read before of one owner moving the exchanger from in front of the radiator to a separate location and added a fan. Anyone have pictures of the AC exchanger/radiator handy?

Charlie 5320 · 07-13-2017, 11:49 AM

I got that original valve cut out and replaced, pumped down and recharged. It's still a tad low on gas, but it cools nicely. Didn't want to open another can of gas and I wanted to watch it a bit, to make sure the compressor seal isn't leaking. I was able to get a good vacuum and it held for 45 minutes, so I charged it up. The only problem was the line isn't completely straight where the valve is located, but being aluminum, I was able to straighten it out and get the new valve installed.