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Old 08-10-2017, 11:34 AM   #1
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496 Workhorse running rich

I recently purchased a 2005 31' Tiffin Allegro with the 496 Workhorse Vortec motor with a Banks header exhaust system installed. It was running rich at the time, I replaced the plugs, wires and heat shields. The air filter is new.

It still idles rich and is diesel like rich under load. I cannot see any O2 sensors in the system and hear rumors about a Mass Air Sensor that may be the issue. I don 't know where it is located, the part no., etc.

Until I can locate a motor manual for this motor, can anybody pass along any ideas?

Thanks
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:49 AM   #2
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Alaskaman1, your MAF sensor is located close to the air filter in the wheel well on the passenger side front. Fairly easy to get to and remove and clean with MAF cleaner available at your local auto parts store. As far as your 02 sensors they should be about 2.5 feet down from motor on exhaust tube.

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Old 08-10-2017, 12:07 PM   #3
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By the way you might want to ask an administrator to move this post to the workhorse forum for a better response.

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Old 08-10-2017, 12:21 PM   #4
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Thank you Jim. I might add there are no codes thrown and no check engine light.

MODS: Please move to the Workhorse forum.

Thank you
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:06 PM   #5
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I'm not surprised you have no codes because the 496 is notorious for not setting check engine codes due to improper a/f mixture problems. Like stated previously you should clean the mass air sensor as a first step. It is located in the intake tube just after the air filter box and is secured with screw type clamps. Loosen the clamps, remove the plug attached to the mass air sensor and then remove. Inside you will see a honeycomb type screen, that is what you will spay cleaner on then let it dry and re-install. One thing for sure is you must get it fixed before you put any miles on because if it is as rich on fuel as you say the piston rings will be ruined in short order due to the excess fuel washing the oil off the cylinder walls.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:24 PM   #6
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Thanks for the info MoCoTom, I just bought MAF cleaner, hopefully that will fix my problem.

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Old 08-10-2017, 04:43 PM   #7
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Here is another link to help you and the sticky top of WH forum has good info for your chassis.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:21 PM   #8
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I noticed that you have a bank exhaust system, it is possible that the prior owner when installing the banks system left out the O2 sensors, which is not good, you should have 2 of them, before the catalytic converter, if you have those.


If you cannot find your O2 sensors, I would look for the wiring for them, taped up somewhere. The o2 sensors provide data to the ECM to adjust your fuel/air ratio, if you don't have them, that would explain why you are running rich.




"A rich mixture results in fuel that is not burned that creates pollution. A lean mixture generates nitrogen-oxide pollutants, which can lead to decreased vehicle performance and engine damage. Oxygen sensors are positioned near points in the exhaust system so to determine if there are rich or lean mixtures in your car."
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7365 View Post
I noticed that you have a bank exhaust system, it is possible that the prior owner when installing the banks system left out the O2 sensors, which is not good, you should have 2 of them, before the catalytic converter, if you have those.


If you cannot find your O2 sensors, I would look for the wiring for them, taped up somewhere. The o2 sensors provide data to the ECM to adjust your fuel/air ratio, if you don't have them, that would explain why you are running rich.




"A rich mixture results in fuel that is not burned that creates pollution. A lean mixture generates nitrogen-oxide pollutants, which can lead to decreased vehicle performance and engine damage. Oxygen sensors are positioned near points in the exhaust system so to determine if there are rich or lean mixtures in your car."
Thanks CJ, I located the O2 sensors on top of the header collectors, ordered a couple new ones, used CRC MAF cleaner on the MAF. Going fishing tomorrow morning, I'll post the results when I return.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7365 View Post
I noticed that you have a bank exhaust system, it is possible that the prior owner when installing the banks system left out the O2 sensors, which is not good, you should have 2 of them, before the catalytic converter, if you have those.


If you cannot find your O2 sensors, I would look for the wiring for them, taped up somewhere. The o2 sensors provide data to the ECM to adjust your fuel/air ratio, if you don't have them, that would explain why you are running rich.




"A rich mixture results in fuel that is not burned that creates pollution. A lean mixture generates nitrogen-oxide pollutants, which can lead to decreased vehicle performance and engine damage. Oxygen sensors are positioned near points in the exhaust system so to determine if there are rich or lean mixtures in your car."

When it comes to piston engine power management most are very misunderstood with regards towards being too 'lean' and it's effects. The following graph shows when and EGT's are the highest...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1463782.jpg

They are at their hottest at 14,7-15.0 (Death zone) . See what happens to the EGT as it progresses more lean....A progressively lean condition is actually cooler running than when at stoich.

The EGT's go down (not up) as does power. Max horsepower is ~ 12.5 - 12.8 AFR but you lose efficiency = MPG.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaman1 View Post
Thanks CJ, I located the O2 sensors on top of the header collectors, ordered a couple new ones, used CRC MAF cleaner on the MAF. Going fishing tomorrow morning, I'll post the results when I return.
Would also like to know how your RV is running too
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:45 AM   #12
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I'm curious to hear how well it ran too.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:40 PM   #13
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I installed the new O2 sensors Friday morning before leaving town on the fishing weekend.

I was (pleasantly) amazed how nice it ran, none of the smoke at idle or soot spitting out of the exhaust. Running down the road was sweet, much more power, no lag or bucking and no billowing black smoke on hills.

A shame I made two changes/repairs at the same time without testing each effect so I don't know which made the biggest impact. I will say the MAF appeared to be clean from the start, but I sprayed the heck out of it anyway.

Thanks for all who passed help along the way, I appreciate all of you.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaman1 View Post
I installed the new O2 sensors Friday morning before leaving town on the fishing weekend.

I was (pleasantly) amazed how nice it ran, none of the smoke at idle or soot spitting out of the exhaust. Running down the road was sweet, much more power, no lag or bucking and no billowing black smoke on hills.

A shame I made two changes/repairs at the same time without testing each effect so I don't know which made the biggest impact. I will say the MAF appeared to be clean from the start, but I sprayed the heck out of it anyway.

Thanks for all who passed help along the way, I appreciate all of you.
In my case I changed the O2 sensor and it had no effect on the problem. Cleaning the MAF made it like a new engine.
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