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Old 08-25-2015, 07:50 AM   #29
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Also, I am currently running the 1 quart filter (NAPA Gold 1060) and it does have the anti-drainback valve. The 2 quart apparently does not, although I did send an question to WIX tech support.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:44 AM   #30
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Well everyone seems to agree that anti drain back filters are not needed on the 8.1 GM. NEW FLASH, THE BIG BLOCK GM ENGINES HAVE HAD THEM SINCE THE MID TO LATE 1990's. GM engineers decided this engine did need the anti drain back valve due to this engine having a soft knock on start up, this took care of that.
If the filter is right side up (like a water glass) the oil can't "drain down"or go anywhere. If the GM filters have the valve it would be a case where that filter has more than one application, and it may be on an engine where the filter is not mounted as on the 8.1. Think of a glass of water you set it on a table, it will NOT DRAIN DOWN, it's not rocket science.
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:07 AM   #31
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Can you explain what is meant by that term?
The knock is the piston skirt hitting the cylinder wall when everything is cold, when things warm up and expand it goes away. I had a Tahoe with that problem. The piston skirt was very short on the engines that had this problem. Everything on a cold engine has more clearance than when it is at operating temp. With the short skirt the piston would "wobble so to speak" and the skirt would hit the cylinder wall. GM said it would not hurt anything, my Tahoe was fine. This is another reason to use synthetic oil, it clings better than dino oil to give better lubrication on cold start.
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Old 08-25-2015, 01:38 PM   #32
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Sure, if you saw some of my earlier replies, I worked with some drive train engineers from Tonawanda N.Y. at the Doraville, Ga. assembly plant (now closed in 2008). When GM started producing the 8.1 big block engine during initial testing on startup a slight soft knock was noticed and the engineers after further testing came to the conclusion that either valve train components or simple piston slap was what was being heard. Because of the longer stroke than the 454 c.I. engine had a more pronounced effect on the piston rod angle causing the audible soft knock or some call piston slap. On a vertical
mounted filter for this engine and most all GM engine have gone to the anti drain back filters. Most all American car manufacturers have also done the same. It was an attempt to keep the oil coming out of the pressure side and draining back into the filter and it did help so now you know why. But if anyone wants to run a 2 quart filter their is nothing stopping you from doing that. When you get a lot of miles on your workhorse engine and you steal using a 2 quart filter, if on start listen for that soft knock if it's there it may be time to go back to a PF1218 or equivalent. Personally I like the Wix #51060 I have seen one cut apart and by comparison it's better quality. Much of what I've said has already been said, but what I've said came straight from GM engineers. Now that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I sure hope this clears up some of the obvious confusion.
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Sure, if you saw some of my earlier replies, I worked with some drive train engineers from Tonawanda N.Y. at the Doraville, Ga. assembly plant (now closed in 2008). When GM started producing the 8.1 big block engine during initial testing on startup a slight soft knock was noticed and the engineers after further testing came to the conclusion that either valve train components or simple piston slap was what was being heard. Because of the longer stroke than the 454 c.I. engine had a more pronounced effect on the piston rod angle causing the audible soft knock or some call piston slap. On a vertical
mounted filter for this engine and most all GM engine have gone to the anti drain back filters. Most all American car manufacturers have also done the same. It was an attempt to keep the oil coming out of the pressure side and draining back into the filter and it did help so now you know why. But if anyone wants to run a 2 quart filter their is nothing stopping you from doing that. When you get a lot of miles on your workhorse engine and you steal using a 2 quart filter, if on start listen for that soft knock if it's there it may be time to go back to a PF1218 or equivalent. Personally I like the Wix #51060 I have seen one cut apart and by comparison it's better quality. Much of what I've said has already been said, but what I've said came straight from GM engineers. Now that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I sure hope this clears up some of the obvious confusion.
If the filter is full of oil how is oil going to drain "back" into it?
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:01 AM   #34
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I believe it's not the filter draining empty in this case it's the oil galleys above the filter draining empty back thru the filter into the pan.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:33 AM   #35
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Personally I like the Wix #51060 I have seen one cut apart and by comparison it's better quality.
Thanks for the reply. I am currently running the NAPA Gold 1060, which is basically a re-badged WIX 51060. Guess I will stick with this filter
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:37 AM   #36
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I believe it's not the filter draining empty in this case it's the oil galleys above the filter draining empty back thru the filter into the pan.
I think that will happen with or without an anti drain valve. I don't think the filter has anything to do with that. All engines will do this, that's why its a good idea to use synthetic oil, it will "cling" better than dino oil. I agree with the anti drain valve on oil filters but it is not needed on an upright filter. A cold dry start is why you should let the engine warm up a little before you rev it up or put a load on it. You don't have to sit there very long, just let it warm a bit. My wife has a Lincoln LS and when you first crank it up it revs up for a little bit, this is to warm the engine up quickly for pollution control. Her car will set for months while we are out in the RV and when I start it it revs up, I hate this, not good for the engine.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:38 PM   #37
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Yes, Yes, Yes Yes, George your thinking actually what the GM engineers were saying twenty years ago which I agree with. Those of you who think this is all wrong, call up the engineers at GM's Tonawanda, N.Y. AND TELL THEM WHY YOU THINK THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Don't kill the messenger.
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:57 PM   #38
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Yes, Yes, Yes Yes, George your thinking actually what the GM engineers were saying twenty years ago which I agree with. Those of you who think this is all wrong, call up the engineers at GM's Tonawanda, N.Y. AND TELL THEM WHY YOU THINK THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Don't kill the messenger.
I thought you said TONAWANDA closed in 2008?
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:34 AM   #39
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No, if you go back carefully read my earlier post you would see I said Doraville, Georgia assembly plant closed.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:59 AM   #40
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No, if you go back carefully read my earlier post you would see I said Doraville, Georgia assembly plant closed.
I called and they were not home.

Sir you are not thinking, the definition of an "anit drain valve" is to KEEP OIL FROM DRANING OUT of the oil filter, not for oil draining into the filter. If you will think about it oil can NOT drain out of a vertically mounted oil filter. It's like a glass of water, it's full. I just can't make it any clearer than that.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:06 AM   #41
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What number did you call? Tonawanda engine plant is indeed still building various GM engines, Google if you think not. All I can say is George Z had it right, it was an attempt to keep some oil on the pressure side of the filter for quicker build up of pressure. The anti drain back is simply a silicone rubber disc with a spring load against it that on a vertical mounted application opens under pressure and closes when the engine is shuts off keeping some oil on the engine side. You had said the oil filter was full there would be no drain back, and there isn't on an ADB type filter. You ASSUME the vertical and horizontal ADB filters work exactly the same. I do not think so after my conversations with those engineers some twenty years ago. Gravity obviously is at work on horizontal type filters, but not vertical mounted filters. Why do you think these ADB type filters were used on all vertical mounted application? The 4.8 & 5.3 litre engines had them from introduction of that engine line. Now if you will give me the number you called I'll see if it's a working number.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:10 AM   #42
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What number did you call? Tonawanda engine plant is indeed still building various GM engines, Google if you think not. All I can say is George Z had it right, it was an attempt to keep some oil on the pressure side of the filter for quicker build up of pressure. The anti drain back is simply a silicone rubber disc with a spring load against it that on a vertical mounted application opens under pressure and closes when the engine is shuts off keeping some oil on the engine side. You had said the oil filter was full there would be no drain back, and there isn't on an ADB type filter. You ASSUME the vertical and horizontal ADB filters work exactly the same. I do not think so after my conversations with those engineers some twenty years ago. Gravity obviously is at work on horizontal type filters, but not vertical mounted filters. Why do you think these ADB type filters were used on all vertical mounted application? The 4.8 & 5.3 litre engines had them from introduction of that engine line. Now if you will give me the number you called I'll see if it's a working number.
Come on that was a joke. You and I will have to agree to disagree.
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