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Old 08-11-2008, 06:08 AM   #1
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In regards to a recent post I made complaining about the power on my 8.1 engine and W22 chassis and subsequently making an appointment with Brazel's I'm posting some results.

Keep in mind I've had the Ultra-Power upgrade with the CAI for about 3 years now.

We just returned from a 4500 mile trip which included Salt Lake City, Portland, Oregon and a 3-day stoppover at Brazel's in Centralia. Then returned to Colorado via I-90 thru Washington, Idaho, Montana, then I-25 thru Wyoming to Colorado.

Brazel's put the rig on the Dyno and reprogrammed the ECM based on what they found. Although the initial HP and Torque wasn't all that bad they did find, might need corrected here, a couple of mixture problems and they fined tune this correctly. The HP went from 315 to 335 and the Torque from 460 to 465. I mentioned to Steve the big fan seemed to come on a lot (making a lot of noise) but more of a concern was the HP robbing properties of the fan. He tested the fan by heating up the engine and it did indeed come on much lower in temperature then it should have and did not turn off at the proper temperature either.

So I stayed another day and we overnighted a new fan clutch and replaced same.

On our way home I was able to give the rig a good test through all types of terrain, elevations, etc. There has been a definite improvement. Didn't downshift as much as it did. The fan didn't come on as often. I don't know why a different clutch would make any difference but when it did come on it wasn't as noisy as before. Although going as far out of the way as it was for us to get to Brazel's in Centralia, Washington in my opinion it was well worth the time and expense. Not only did I get improvement, I got a hands on chance to see the before and after.

Now the negative part of our trip. If anyone has any comments or ideas I'd appreciate the input. Coming through Wyoming about 90 miles north of Casper we were traveling about 63 or 64 miles per hour. It was warm but the Aeroforce gauge showed the engine temperature at about 205 degrees, the transmission was about 165 degrees. No warning whatsoever on the Actia dash panel and the engine went into Limp (reduced power) mode. At least I guess that's what it was. Luckely there was an exit and I limped down the ramp and stopped at the crossroad. The engine would not rev beyond 800 or 900 rpm. I turned it off and we sat for about 30 minutes. It started right up and ran perfect without missing a beat for the rest of the trip home. As yet I haven't checked the P-codes to see what might have happened. I'm planning on checking later today or tomorrow. As mentioned any comments would be appreciated.

Here are a couple of pictures while the rig was being worked on.

Rig on the Dyno


The bad fan clutch


I posted this one because I know how Driver likes pictures of this sort. Take a close look at the block. Brazel's was replacing the engine in an older motorhome. It's a 454 GM Engine.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:08 AM   #2
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In regards to a recent post I made complaining about the power on my 8.1 engine and W22 chassis and subsequently making an appointment with Brazel's I'm posting some results.

Keep in mind I've had the Ultra-Power upgrade with the CAI for about 3 years now.

We just returned from a 4500 mile trip which included Salt Lake City, Portland, Oregon and a 3-day stoppover at Brazel's in Centralia. Then returned to Colorado via I-90 thru Washington, Idaho, Montana, then I-25 thru Wyoming to Colorado.

Brazel's put the rig on the Dyno and reprogrammed the ECM based on what they found. Although the initial HP and Torque wasn't all that bad they did find, might need corrected here, a couple of mixture problems and they fined tune this correctly. The HP went from 315 to 335 and the Torque from 460 to 465. I mentioned to Steve the big fan seemed to come on a lot (making a lot of noise) but more of a concern was the HP robbing properties of the fan. He tested the fan by heating up the engine and it did indeed come on much lower in temperature then it should have and did not turn off at the proper temperature either.

So I stayed another day and we overnighted a new fan clutch and replaced same.

On our way home I was able to give the rig a good test through all types of terrain, elevations, etc. There has been a definite improvement. Didn't downshift as much as it did. The fan didn't come on as often. I don't know why a different clutch would make any difference but when it did come on it wasn't as noisy as before. Although going as far out of the way as it was for us to get to Brazel's in Centralia, Washington in my opinion it was well worth the time and expense. Not only did I get improvement, I got a hands on chance to see the before and after.

Now the negative part of our trip. If anyone has any comments or ideas I'd appreciate the input. Coming through Wyoming about 90 miles north of Casper we were traveling about 63 or 64 miles per hour. It was warm but the Aeroforce gauge showed the engine temperature at about 205 degrees, the transmission was about 165 degrees. No warning whatsoever on the Actia dash panel and the engine went into Limp (reduced power) mode. At least I guess that's what it was. Luckely there was an exit and I limped down the ramp and stopped at the crossroad. The engine would not rev beyond 800 or 900 rpm. I turned it off and we sat for about 30 minutes. It started right up and ran perfect without missing a beat for the rest of the trip home. As yet I haven't checked the P-codes to see what might have happened. I'm planning on checking later today or tomorrow. As mentioned any comments would be appreciated.

Here are a couple of pictures while the rig was being worked on.

Rig on the Dyno


The bad fan clutch


I posted this one because I know how Driver likes pictures of this sort. Take a close look at the block. Brazel's was replacing the engine in an older motorhome. It's a 454 GM Engine.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:07 AM   #3
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Bob, Glad to hear your UP got better. Let us know what may have caused the limp mode problem. That is not good. Did Brazel's have any comments on the Limp mode? Or are they waiting for any kind of codes from you?

I see the probelem with that blue engine. It is missing a oil pan....

Hmmmm, I wonder if they heard some rattling from the engine. Bummer for them.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:03 PM   #4
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the blue engine is upside down......THATS the problem !!!
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:57 PM   #5
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This afternoon I was able to plug in the OBDII reader to see, if any, what codes may have been set. The reader showed no codes. So I don't know what the problem was.

On another topic Driver had mentioned a similar problem regarding the transmission and engine getting out of sync or something to that effect. He said it can happen and when it does it will go into limp mode. It's not a catastrophic failure so turning the engine off for a short time will reset the problem and all is well. I'm thinking something like this was what happened to me.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:22 PM   #6
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Thank you for the picture!
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:07 AM   #7
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Bob,
Did you have the cruise control on at the time it went into limp mode? Was the tranny down shifting 5-4-3? If so, it may have rev'd the engine too high and went into limp mode.

I've had the problem come and go on my W22. I've had several various symptoms related to the IP giving false readings and the tranny downshifting or going into neutral or not locking up in overdrive. When it's acting up I can't use the cruise control because it will send the rpm's up thru the roof and if I'm not quick enough it'll shut down & go into limp mode. My problem is very intermittent and right now it has not acted up for the past 2000 miles.

Good luck,
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:51 AM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rick_od:
the blue engine is upside down......THATS the problem !!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it is a new design that uses 2 oil pans, one at each head to make sure both sides of the engine get equal oil. Isn't 2 better than one in this case??
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:21 PM   #9
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Duner... I can't remember if I was in cruise control or not. I'd been in and out of using it due to the terrain, but I could have been using it at the time it happened. I know what you mean about the cruise sending the rpm's thru the roof. The cruise on these rig's is a joke, other then only using it on a flat road with no head wind.

I had noticed the Atia going blank a couple of times on this trip. But just about the time I noticed it and was wandering what happened everything came back. I've heard of others having this happen but don't remember what they did, if anything, to remedy the problem. I'll be checking all connections and grounds tomorrow. Also, whether this is related to the limp or reduced power problem or not, I also don't know.
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:32 PM   #10
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The engine looks like a few I've removed from my Corvette during my younger racing days. If you look at how discolored the rod is, next to the failed one, one could make a case that the engine was run low on oil.

To addres your problem it seems hard to understand how an engine can go into a "limp-home" mode yet not set an error code. Ths is serious stuff if your rolling down the interstate when it happens.
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:40 PM   #11
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe Gilbert:
The engine looks like a few I've removed from my Corvette during my younger racing days. If you look at how discolored the rod is, next to the failed one, one could make a case that the engine was run low on oil.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Looks like the four bolt mains didn't do a lot of good in this case.

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Old 08-12-2008, 05:06 PM   #12
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Not a very big engine. The label at the left says 18HP.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:33 PM   #13
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Bob if you have your CC on and you accidently flip the CC switch you will cause the engine to go into Limp mode, has happened to me a number of times with my limp fingers.
You have to stop for a while and every thing will reset.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:38 PM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if you have your CC on and you accidently flip the CC switch you will cause the engine to go into Limp mode </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
ROGER: Please elaborate, I don't understand. ED
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