And Now it Begins..Rusted Mufflers

[gresults]

I had posted I had just purchased a 2009 Georgie Boy CruiseMaster, well after getting home with unit discovered Mufflers where badly rusting to a point prior to Vehicle inspection I more than likely will need to get them replaced.

So contacted local Workhorse Service Center who looked into this issue, This was the response they got back from Workhorse.


"GREETINGS MR. ETHRIDGE,
IN MY COMMUNICATION AND RESEARCH WITH WORKHORSE CONCERNING THE RUSTING ON THE EXHAUST UNDER YOUR COACH, AS PART OF DELIVERY AND PRE-DELIVERY-INSPECTIONS WORKHORSE PAYS THE SELLING DEALER TO MAINTAIN THE COACHES FLOORPLANNED ON THE DEALERS LOT, THIS CHASSIS SHOWS TO HAVE BEEN DELIVERED TO THE COACH BUILDER 07/29/07. COACHMEN ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY AT THAT POINT TO CLEAN AND MAINTAIN AREAS AFFECTED BY TIME.
WORKHORSE HAS STATED THAT THERE IS NO ABILITY TO ASSIST YOU OTHER THAN RECOMMENDING THAT YOU CONTACT THE SELLING DEALER TO HAVE YOUR CONCERNS ADDRESSED.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACK ME IF THERE IS ANY OTHER CONCERNS I WOULD BE ABLE TO ASSIST YOU WITH."

So after reading that I'm was a bit confused, So workhorse sales a chassis to a builder, and Expected the manufacture clean and maintain it, are they saying Coachman should have been out polishing and waxing the muffler or not letting it get exposed to elements. (its on a vechicle chassis)

I guess I would expect a muffler which installed in a place which no matter what would be exposed to the elements. in some form or fashion to last maybe more than a couple years.

Thing that catches my eye is the fact they have passed the buck to Coachman, I checked the 3 year 36 mile warrantty which I assumed began when I bought the coach which states the exhaust system is covered of course what type of coverage is not specific, So having to do some research.

Well going back to dealer on this and seeing what they want to do....

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gresults So after reading that I'm was a bit confused, So workhorse sales a chassis to a builder, and Expected the manufacture clean and maintain it, are they saying Coachman should have been out polishing and waxing the muffler or not letting it get exposed to elements. (its on a vechicle chassis)

gresults, Manufacturers are expected to treat undelivered chassis as if they are future customer's property and their storage facility should have been able to keep the chassis in like new condition until the OE is ready to build on it. Additionally if an engine is run for a short period of time and shut down without having reached operational temperatures water can collect in the exhaust systems. It isn't easy damaging aluminized steel but apparently not impossible.

Once the vehicle is built and floor planned, the selling dealer assumes responsibility for the unit until its delivered.

If the vehicle was delivered with serviceable or like new mufflers, I don't believe that Workhorse would have any problem honoring the warranty. No one knows how this vehicle was run, storred and treated until it was delivered.

It isn't fair to you that your mufflers have holes in them and likewise it isn't exactly fair to saddle Workhorse with how the new chassis was treated while it was an incomplete unit. I believe that your OE needs to accept some responsibility in this matter and if they have a claim against Workhorse they should pursue that on their own after you get your new mufflers.

[TXiceman]

That is a lot of rust for muffles that were supposedly new in July or 2007. ...they are barely over 2 years old. Even with some short runs and not getting up to temperature, that is too much rust for a supposedly aluminumized muffler.

I wonder if in the delivery process the chassis was exposed to to some road saly conditions and not properly washed down to get the salt off.

Your dealer and WH need to work out the issue and make at least a partial reimbursement for the replacement of the mufflers. If they saddle you with the whole bill, I would go aftermarket.

Ken

[DriVer]

We have a nice small community of UFO owners perhaps 6 to 10 and I guess that we will hear from them before too long.

My exhaust system is something on the order of 15 or more feet long, the exhaust system on the UFO is half of that in length or less. The exhaust pipe makes a fairly large bend. The header outputs and turns I guess some 45 or more degrees and flows backward to the converter and muffler.

This exhaust system is so short and diameter of pipe so large that one would not expect much in the way of back pressure from the stock muffler.

I'm still running pretty much the same mufflers that are on a UFO and mine are going on 8 years and some 82,000+ miles and no rust through on my mufflers.

I am just as interested as the next person in finding out what could be the problem on 2 year old mufflers. I do expect that my short run theory will rule the day. In my experience, mufflers do not rust from the outside in as might be expected when exposed to environmental concerns but they rust out from the inside to the outside by water and heat in combination within the exhaust system.

[sknight]

Look at the hose crimps above the muffler in the last pic. That has been exposed to salt. I have no idea how it got there but the evidence is clear.

[gresults]

I did hear from my Dealer they are waiting on a answer now from Coachman/Forest River into a solution., I have been reassured that one way or another I will be getting new mufflers since a requiremnt for inspection will be a sealed exhaust system.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea once Workhorse delivered the chassis they where released of any responsibility to provide a Muffler that could handle sitting for a couple years, If nothing else you would think they might check with there muffler supplier just on the fact it was sold to be used on a Motorhome chassis which they should have know might be sitting for awhile prior to be sold.

I guess my major concern is hopefully its not a pattern that is to be continued, You either offer a warranty or you don't. I think I more concernd that I have a issue with the chassis and the first thing they do is blame the problem on the motorhome manufacter as stated by the wording they floor plan the chassis to the dealer which if I'm not mistaken would indicate they more than likely still belonged to workhorse more than likely until the point they where used on a motorhome chassis so wouldn't that mean technically the responsibility for proper storage would also include them to over see there investment was being taken care of.

Also when I purchased the motorhome my warranty started not when they dropped it off to Coachman/Forest River.

Well will keep the post updated.. Other than the Mufflers so far happy camper, other some minor issues related to Keys and Remotes.

[billyb]

its just another thing the motorhome manufacturer and chassis manufacturer try to weasel out of again. they sure aren't held to any standards like the car man's
the coach manufacturer should have a couple of kids pressure wash the chassis when they come in as there is a lot of salty roads in indiana during the winter. i don't think the coach builders don't really care other then a couple like tiffan or newmar.

[Jim Stewart]

I think that Workhorse may be starting to be like health insurance. I have started to believe that health insurers turn down the bills the first time regardless of coverage. They know that a certain percentage of the people will just pay the bill and some will re-claim. Then, they turn them down again and they know so many will just pay in frustration. It seems to save them money and increases profits.

If the warranty starts from date of sale to the original owner, how can Workhorse legitimately deny your claim. They probably can't, so if they turn you down, they think that they have a good shot at you just walking away. If you complain, they turn you down again, just like the health insurers.

I doubt that the Gentleman that wrote you from Workhorse could back up his statements of rejection with any written policy or that it is actually excluded from your warranty. You may want to consider writing a letter to Dan Ustian the CEO of Navistar. With their new found MH division, he may want to start being better at customer relations.

[angelman]

Why would you buy a 2009 MH with a 2007 chassis?

[-Gramps-]

That exhaust sytem looks like it sat underwater for awhile. My coach was delivered to the dealer in July of 07 and I have some minor rust on the exhaust pipes but nothing on the muffler. The coach hasn't been sitting for two years however.

[Jim Stewart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelman Why would you buy a 2009 MH with a 2007 chassis?

Many if not most of the MH produced since 2007 have a 1 or 2 year old chassis verses the model year. When times were good, 30-50% had chassis that was at least 1 year old or more verses designated model year. They buy in quantity and produce the MH off of the chassis inventory. When the market started to slow the spread got greater.

[ron55]

In Summary

If an emission control or emission related part, or a specified
major emission control component is defective, or if your vehicle
fails an I/M test, and your vehicle is within the time and mileage
limitations for emissions warranty coverage:

* Present a warranty claim to an authorized warranty representative.

If your warranty claim is denied:

* Ask for the reason for denial, in writing.

* Follow the appeal procedures in your owner's manual.

If you are not satisfied with the manufacturer's decision:

* Contact the EPA, which will investigate the denial of a
valid emissions warranty complaint.

Keep This With Your Vehicle for Future Reference

[DriVer]

I fully expect that the OE will replace the mufflers because it would be unconscionable to deliver a completed vehicle to an end user with exhaust system leaks, that just can't be allowed to happen.

On everyone's service history the date that the chassis is delivered to the OE is posted and from that date until the vehicle is delivered to the customer it is the repsonsibility of the OE as it is their property. Workhorse doesn't floor plan chassis. Those are bought and paid for when the chassis is delivered to the OE. An OE can floor plan a motorhome and wait to get paid, not so the suppliers. Guys like Allision, GM and others including Westport, Dana, Bosch are all in line with their hand out expecting to get paid from the chassis builder.

You can conjecture forever as to whom will pick up the warranty costs but the vehicle owner does not need to be concerned about pushing paper. We sometimes see the dealer picking up the cost which gets pushed up to the OE and then gets pushed up to the chassis builder. It's infrequesntly done but it's often the way it works and there shouldn't be anything remarkable in this case.

The end game here is to get gresults hooked up with a sealed exhaust system.

[Duner]

gresults,
How many miles were on the coach when you took delivery?
You should have distance from factory to your dealer, then any amount over that may have been to/from RV shows and demo's.

What month/year was the coach built?
If it was built a year ago, it could have been driven several times on salty roads.

I ordered my Winnebago Oct 03 and was delivered from Iowa to CA in late Dec. I was at the dealer just after it arrived before they could "clean it up". The whole undercarriage was sandblasted and rusting. Both sides of the windshield pitted and chipped. And the rear cap was badly chipped and had to be re-painted. The delivery driver had to be driving it like a madman in a snowstorm with his toad bouncing stones back onto the coach. The dealer "fixed" everything, but the repainted undercarriage was never like new. Rust on bolts and fittings, and welded joints still have rust from that 1st week the coach was driven. The mufflers, though, look fine with no rust. I'm a warm weather rv'er and have never been on salted roads.

Here's what it looks like now after almost 6 years....notice the steel propane fittings rusted compared to the muffler.