Another Brake Problem

[Alicat]

Had my first eposode with W/H brakes. It ocurred this past Monday less than a mile from the campground we were going to in Lancaster, PA. The trip from home to there is about 130 miles most of it flat but the last 30 miles or so is hilly. We noticed a distinct burning oder and the brake pedal felt different. The ABS light did not come on. Upon arrival I found the right front wheel was hot but not smoking. A few hours later I used the jacks to lift the tire off the ground and it turned freely. I called a W/H repair center and the earliest appointment I can get is in September. We drove the M/H home yesterday without a problem. I used the grade brake in the hilly area and did not tow. BTW, the grade brake is probably under utilized by most of us. I don't think there was any real damage done since we caught the problem so quickly and I doubt that W/H will pay for the inspection unless there is caliper damage. What are your thoughts about having an inspection done (I'm inclined to keep the appointment) ? Driver, I would appreciate your thoughts on this. My motorhome is a 2005 Winnebago Voyage with 19,000 miles. The brake fluid was changed last Fall.

Thanks,
Art

[Bigdaddy]

Mine did the same thing last year as I pulled into the campground. Let it cool down and left the CG 3 days later. I have then put over 6K miles on and have had no problems. Mine was the pass.side rear brake. The IR temp meter read about 300deg on the disc and caliber. When I returned home, I replaced the fluid in that brake caliber. I had just replaced the fluid in all calibers just before that trip. We just return from a 17K trip to KS with no problems. And yes it was a HOT trip!!! My discs and rotors show no sign of overheating. I do not plan to leave my MH sit, and plan to use it until the wheels turn UP!

[Full-Timers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicat Driver, I would appreciate your thoughts on this. My motorhome is a 2005 Winnebago Voyage with 19,000 miles. The brake fluid was changed last Fall. Thanks, Art

I think DriVer will be reluctant to answer since he got chastised for telling another to let it cool and drive it. However I agree with him. As long as it runs free after cooling I would run it. That is not to say it won’t happen again.

As long as you are careful to not over heat the brakes again you should be OK.

["007"]

If I had a grade brake would use all the time. I do gear it down when hitting a long grade, no brake problems.
Another thing simply leave a large space in front of you in traffic. Use coach weight to slow you down.

[SideRoads]

I like the exhaust brake,,,,,and keeping a lot of distance for slowing down when possible.........

Have not had any brake problems,,,,,,,,,,except on one occasion did get a brake scent,on a flat terrain,,,,and normal brake useage,,,,stopped and no further problems,,,,,,,24k on the MH,,,,,,,,I am aware of the potential when travelling............We have been sitting for 4 months on a Volunteer commitment in a very humid area,,,,,,,,,

Because of this issue,,,,,I am very careful about how and when and how long I use the brake pedal.....

I am concerned about how my trip from here will be with the brake issue,,,,,,,,,,,

I have not seen any issues,,,,yet,,,,with the 2006 workhorse,,,,,,,,but from what I have read,,,,,,it may not be too far off in the future.....

There has been a lot of discussion about this issue,,,,,,there may be resolution,,,,someday!!!!

Never had/seen a recall issue drag on for this long,,,,,,,,,,,seems to be more of a mechanical issue than a safety issue.......

[Rocky Larson]

BTDT, in addition to destroying the ABS sensor, which you did not indicate happened to you, the heat on the front wheels can blow out the rubber fill plug on the oil hub (if you have oil bath lubrication). The oil will stay in, if the plastic window is intact, but can get contaminated. It is a simple inspection and a DIY replacement if you can find the part. Duct tape will keep out road crud until you can complete the job. I have paid $49-63 for sensors and $19-34 for oil hub assemblys. I recommend getting the inspection done and a TPMS with temperature reporting as well.

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicat BTW, the grade brake is probably under utilized by most of us. I don't think there was any real damage done since we caught the problem so quickly and I doubt that W/H will pay for the inspection unless there is caliper damage. What are your thoughts about having an inspection done (I'm inclined to keep the appointment) ? Driver, I would appreciate your thoughts on this. My motorhome is a 2005 Winnebago Voyage with 19,000 miles. The brake fluid was changed last Fall.

Art, It is indeed difficult for me to post in response to your questions because I can just about guarantee that someone will come in right behind me with few choice words of opinion which essentially won't help you BUT it will make them feel better. None the less I will try to answer your question to the best of my ability.

Your remarks about TGB are valid. You would be surprised as to how many people have the device but do not have a clue what its for or how it's employed. This is due to poor performance during the PDI by the person assigned to deliver the MH. I have an aftermarket system called the AUGB (Allison Ultrapower Grade Brake) which I have turned on when I installed it and I don't believe that while the machine is operating I have ever turned it off except to rule out whether the thing was working or not. It's been reliable since day one and it does indeed save wear and tear on the brakes.

In regard to the inspection, you may go out of pocket if there is an NTF on your service invoice. I can't offer any suggestion as to how to get around this because if at the time of the inspection if it ain't broke there's nothing to fix so there's nothing that the center can bill for to reconcile the time they applied toward inspecting your vehicle.

Owners in 2005 model year chassis are beginning the ramp up failure rates that we all have seen in the NHTSA graphs where in evidence 2001-2004 chassis have exhibited the majority of seizures. Failures are beginning to occur on your MY (model year) MH regardless of the fact that it is equipped with a TGB.

I would like to add that a 2005 vehicle with 19,000 miles is only about 4,000 miles per year. The low mileage factor contributes more significantly to this problem than a 600 pound gorilla up a sapling. Given "time" and infrequent brake cycles the pistons in your calipers begin to swell and as a consequence when the driving environment becomes challenging as in spending extended time in stop & go traffic, the failure rate appears to increase.

The resolution that has been applied by Bosch is the use of a new impermiable material (phenolic) and that over the life of the caliper issues related to low mileage and infrequesnt use in RV that applications will be I understand eliminated.

I do expect that the 50901-C Bosch Caliper Recall will begin shortly however it will not be soon enough for the majority of people affected by this issue. At this point I find myself immune to this issue because I completely replaced all my braking equipment at the wheels ends some 25 months ago. If nothing else, I am ruling out that the Interim parts fail immediately which clearly isn't the case and sustains the argument that this event happens over time and is typically seen at ~50 - 60 months or beyond of ownership.

[Alicat]

Thanks, Driver for responding. I know there is a forum risk each time you respond to such questions. As for the mileage, I bought the unit new (as a leftover) in September of 2006 and it had about 1,100 delivery miles on it. Don't know how long it was on the dealer's lot but possibly several months. Since then we've used it quite a bit and really enjoy motorhoming.

I called W/H and of couse I couldn't get through (all lines busy) but I did get a return call which I appreciated. Don't know the purpose of the return call other than verifying that I am the owner of that vin # and that it is on the recall list. They also gave me the location of the nearest W/H service center which I already knew. No direction in terms of getting looked at. They did tell me (unsolicited) that the recall would begin in October....we'll see.

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicat They did tell me (unsolicited) that the recall would begin in October....we'll see.

Alicat, You're welcome. In your closing comment you've stated that Workhorse offered that the recall will begin on October. That's good News since we have seen November and next year batted around! Your statement is reassuring that Workhorse will indeed roll out the recall. I can only hope that your words will give some of the skeptics that firmly believe that the recall won't ever happen hope that this issue will soon come to closure.

I am attending the East Coast Workhorse Chassis Motorhome Club Rally in October where I expect that we will hear a more definitive timeline since we will be very close to the launch date. Of course, I as well as the many owners that will be there are going to be eager to share everything that comes out of the Wednesday, October 13, morning seminar.

When a large campaign like this is scheduled to begin there are going to be more than just calipers that are going to be needed by the service centers. Aside from the 200,000 calipers that are going to be required to complete the recall, add to that number 4 each or so of rotors, pads, hose lines, ABS sensors, bearing cups, seals and gaskets. Customers are going to expect that everything will be in place when they come in for the recall and I would very disappointed to see a number of rigs sidelined waiting for parts. I am hoping that the time it's taking to start the recall includes the receiving of not only new calipers but all the other components that are going to be needed in order to get owners in and out quickly. There is a possibility that 1 of two things will occur. Either this will be a continuing disappointment for some owners or this will be their finest hour. Time will tell.

All of a sudden this turns into a "Very BIG Shoe" Ed Sullivan would have said.

[Spoonman]

Nice speech, how can this be reassuring? everyone who speaks to anyone supposedly speaking for w/horse gets a different answer. Any rumor of good news and you pounce on it and get your digs in at those of us who would like the FACTS from WH directly.

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonman Nice speech, how can this be reassuring? everyone who speaks to anyone supposedly speaking for w/horse gets a different answer. Any rumor of good news and you pounce on it and get your digs in at those of us who would like the FACTS from WH directly.

Spoonman, Why then don't you do like Alicat and call them directly .... I don't need to justify or defend what is written here or offered by other members of the forum.

[Spoonman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriVer Spoonman, Why then don't you do like Alicat and call them directly .... I don't need to justify or defend what is written here or offered by other members of the forum.

Hmmmm, thought that was the reason for the recall website, just another stall I guess. Now you say you will check in Oct seminar. Do you have any idea how many times you have said things like this?"Go to the rally and ask this one or that one" and not one concrete answer.well, maybe next time it will happen. Maybe.

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoonman Hmmmm, thought that was the reason for the recall website, just another stall I guess. Now you say you will check in Oct seminar. Do you have any idea how many times you have said things like this?"Go to the rally and ask this one or that one" and not one concrete answer.well, maybe next time it will happen. Maybe.

Spoonman, I am not going to go and ask anyone for the information. Collectively the approximate 90 owners, many whom are members here, will share what is said at the rally. I expect that a number of these folks will also be following me to Myrtle Beach for the iRV2 Rally at Ocean Lakes. Much will be discussed over the course of the 2 weeks that we will spend together.

I have no control over the News, I am not making this stuff up, I am only sharing what was said. Again, I am not responsible if the News is not received well of if the conditions that precipitated the release of the News have changed.

With the release of the information that will come from the Club Rally you have 2 choices, dismiss it out of hand as lies or deception or be at minimum "receptive" of the information that is provided to all of us simultaneously. I will weigh the information as will the many others and it will not just be my opinion that is posted but the many others who have heard the statements for themselves. The forum members that are not able to attend the rally can do with the information as they will but I can tell you this, it will be posted on the same day as it was told to all of us.

If the information that is given is a definite timeline of events, I can just about guarantee you that someone is going to ask whether or not it'll be posted in the www.workhorse.com/brakeresourcecenter for all to see.

[Alicat]

I was reluctantant to post the info about the recall timing provided by the W/H rep and didn't do so in my first post. I thought it might create negative energy like it has done. But on my second post thanking Driver for responding I thought it was information that the group should have. I didn't ask the rep for the timing, she gave it to me. I was a little skeptical but told her I was hopeful that timeline holds up. I expressed our frustration and while I'm not sure she fully understands it she did properly accecpt what I said. I do feel better that we are getting pretty close to the start of the recall after what I consider a longer period of time than it should have taken. Believe W/H could have handled the PR of this much better by providing more information regarding what's involved in the recall (e.g. needing more rotors, brake pads, etc. like Driver suggested), where they are in the process and where the bottlenecks are. W/H has lost a lot of customer confidence in the way they have handled this thus far. IMO they can recapture some of that by handling the recall both effectively and efficiently. Hopefully the time they are taking will make the recall work well.