Another siezed brake

[JeeperJohn]

Originally Posted by deputydog

Well here we sit with a dragging rear brake in a Publix parking lot. Got lucky cause I felt the drag and pulled in just as smoke/smell started. This is my second on - first was RT front - now left rear. happened on Florida flat roads.
Called Workhorse Roadside Assistance and was told I had to call the recall line, which of course they don't answer after hours (I called about 7 pm EST). No tech to talk to - just basically SOL as far as WH is concerned until I call during their hours. They did offer to try and dispatch a wrecker AT MY EXPENSE, which I declined since I have Good Sams Towing.

Guess I get to sleep here -I CAN HARDLY WAIT TO SEE HOW HELPFUL THEY ARE TOMORROW!!!

So forget calling WH Roadside Assistance per the recall brochure- sure did 't help me any!

NOT A HAPPY CAMPER

Good luck with your brake problem (and I mean this in a very sincere way), but if you stopped before your brakes were toast, you might as well stop wasting time calling the number as WH does not replace your caliper anymore (even with the old style) unless the service center can send pictures showing severe damage done by excessive heat. From your account, it sounds like you (like most of us) are too conscientious to qualify for WH help at this time. We were denied even though this was our third failure and we certainly know the symptoms, smells, etc., but of course, after the caliper cooled off we were good to go according to the service center! We replaced ours at our expense once again as we knew once it fails it will continue to fail!

[Capt Joe]

JeeperJohn,

Your experience sounds a lot like mine...I had the RF go out first, then the LF and WH covered both of them. Then I had both rears seize at the same time and was refused any assistance through the regional service manager....which I think is a very bad decision just because I was aware enough to stop before the brakes were toasted. If I had kept on driving, I feel sure that they would have covered the rears....and probably at a greater expense after they had been heated enough to melt seals, destroy rotors and possible cause a fire.

I too had both rear calipers...and the WH service center also found bad ABS sensors on the rears and replaced them too....replaced AT MY EXPENSE!!!! After the proven fact that my coach was prone to having rotors failing to release (and I HAVE done the lube, fluid flush, etc) I did not feel confident at all that my brakes were safe to drive with planned trips before the recall would be completed.

I don't know if it is going to help at all but I am preparing a packet of information to send in as an appeal for more logical minds to review my situation...all of the history and not just the most recent incident...to see if the upper powers might just agree with me on the need to replace the rotors instead of just having to pay an 'inspection fee' and wait for it to happen again on the next trip where I might not recognize the symptoms of dragging brakes and cause a major burn out of the brakes, a loss of braking function, an accident, a fire or __________, you can fill in the blank.

Anyway, I do love my WH chassis and look forward to many more miles...hopefully happy miles....now that my wife is retiring on May 31. I put new Koni FSD/s on the front last fall and added the rears this week. I am now sitting at Eastbank COE park on Lake Seminole in Georgis listening to the Canadian geese honk on the lake as I type this post....THAT is what it's all about and not having to worry about the brakes seizing as you drive to your destinations.

As an added note, my WH service center is to be commended (mostly) in the manner which they handled the most recent brake failure. Even though they were certain that WH would cover the repairs to the rear brakes, they were denied when the regional service manager FINALLY responded. He first accused them of sending in fake pictures among other things which delayed their repairs. They when he did deny any coverage, the service center had already replaced the calipers, ABS sensors, etc (they were CERTAIN it would be covered by WH) and when I did accept the repairs, they only charged me the warranty prices for both labor and parts...which, best as I can tell was only about 50% of the full retail.

Oh well, we do what we can do to keep enjoying our 'toys' and hope for the best in the end. Any after the rain stopped last night, it is a BEAUTIFUL day her on the shores of Lake Seminole!!!!!

Good Luck with your coach. I'll post again when and if I get a resolution on mine.

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by Capt Joe

Your experience sounds a lot like mine....

Capt Joe, Thanks for sharing your experiences and day with us. Now about those geese ... those are Canada Geese not Canadians .. It sounds like you are having a wonderful stay on the shores of Lake Seminole as you should.

In your comments I see where you used the word rotors a couple of times. I expect that you meant to use the word "caliper" instead but it's all good.

If you have 4 new calipers at the moment I can say with confidence that I would not expect any issues with those for 4 to 5 years. Good News is that way before then the recall will have launched and the majority of affected vehicles will have had this issue resolved.

What we are seeing in the threads is that the longer time passes the more calipers are beginning to present problems. Just to satisfy your curiosity and especially since you are preparing an appeal, have you reviewed the NHTSA documentation that has been provided here as to what the technical challenges are with the calipers? There may be some material in there that might help you.

[wilanddij]

About every two weeks I check in to this forum hoping to see some kind of good news about the W20/W22 brake recall from one of the WH ambassadors. I learned in Psych 101 that totally negative feedback is supposed to change my behavior, but yet here I am again. What a sucker I am.

[deputydog]

Originally Posted by CoastieSCPO

I know, I don't have to go to this forum. But every time I do, there is one post after another concerning brakes and all the problems and angst that goes along with it. As one who owns WH W-20 and has had a brake system failure, I am intimately involved. But enough is enough! The folks at Bosch and WH need to fix this problem. Now!

Here's my plan of action. Use the rig. Hope for the best. Get it fixed if it breaks. Double up on the monthly payments and get back to even equity. Then get rid of it and buy a DP.

Oh darn......I've changed my mind and going back to bed. Just park it!

Bob

I have no payment & at this point I'd pay for new calipers myself. problem is the only ones available are the defective ones. Per the WH rep. "if replaced they COULD last up to 3 years". My simple mind interprets that to mean they could also fail tomorrow, just like 2 of 4 of mine have, even with good care! What kind of choice is that ?

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by deputydog

Per the WH rep. "if replaced they COULD last up to 3 years". My simple mind interprets that to mean they could also fail tomorrow, just like 2 of 4 of mine have, even with good care! What kind of choice is that ?

In the above post I wrote, "If you have 4 new calipers at the moment I can say with confidence that I would not expect any issues with those for 4 to 5 years."

The evidence is irrevocable, check the investigations, the failures are all linked to length of time installed. The calipers have not proven to be prone to imminent failure. I will say this, a new current build caliper is not going to fail tomorrow, next week or next year. It's going to take some time at least 4 to 5 years if not more.

I have 4 new (old) calipers with 20 months on install time and there has not been any problem with them.

[Capt Joe]

Originally Posted by DriVer

Capt Joe, Thanks for sharing your experiences and day with us. Now about those geese ... those are Canada Geese not Canadians .. It sounds like you are having a wonderful stay on the shores of Lake Seminole as you should.

In your comments I see where you used the word rotors a couple of times. I expect that you meant to use the word "caliper" instead but it's all good.

Driver,
Thanks for the proper name on the geese. I did know that but we have a whole lot of Canadian visitors in our area each winter and we are just used to identifying them as Canadians and don't call them Canada Citizens or anything and I guess that the Canadian name just sticks for us Florida Panhandle residents.

As for the use or rotors, I did mean 'rotors' in the first instance where I was talking about the damaged items but it was a mistype on the second usage.

I really appreciate the comment as to the jargon in the NHTSA documentation and plan to go over it in detail as I write my appeal for reconsideration of my last brake failure. I certainly would feel much better with WH accepting responsibility for the damage that occurred and was diagnosed and repaired by their authorized service facility. As you also mentioned, the expected time before the next failures with even the new 'old' calipers, should get me safely past the time when the recall can be completed...and that is the main reason I went on and authorized the repairs even though I strongly feel WH should be, at the least, financially responsible. At the time of the last brake failure, I had 2 trips planned and paid for (one VERY important one with our grandsons to see the Christmas lights at Callaway Gardens) and had absolutely no desire to head out in a coach that had proven its propensity for brake failures.

Thanks again for your input.

[max49]

I doubt if anyone wants to give out truthful and accurate statistics even if WH or the NTSA knows, but it would be interesting to know the % of brake problems in the east or humid states as compared to the western or dryer climate states. Has anyone had the sticking caliper problem in Colorado or other low humidity states?
I lived in FL for 35 years and there is a huge difference in humidity if moisture is supposed to be a contributing factor.

[ron55]

Mr Driver, So the brakes that are failing are 4 to 5 year in use?

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by ron55

Mr Driver, So the brakes that are failing are 4 to 5 year in use?

Ron, I didn't say that by the way, the NHTSA did and they have it graphed out by model year failure rate. Take a look at the document links that have been provided and you will see for yourself how that curve has steadily progressed and will no doubt continue to do so on later model chassis as time passes by.

This entire matter is well documented and there isn't anything that indicates that a Bosch caliper will present any problems on the new vehicles that they have been installed on. In my estimation the reliability also extends to Interim replacement calipers over the same period of time. We have not seen or heard of any replacement calipers failing however when an owner installs a new caliper we have often heard of a second or third caliper failing.

From 2006 to 2010 you will no doubt see a 0 failure rate. The failure rate peaks in 2001-2003, is prominent in 2004 and may begin displaying data for 2005 models. Take a look at the graphs that NHTSA created and let me know what you think.

[DAN L]

[QUOTE=DriVer;613683]

We have not seen or heard of any replacement calipers failing however when an owner installs a new caliper we have often heard of a second or third caliper failing. ???

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by DAN L

We have not seen or heard of any replacement calipers failing however when an owner installs a new caliper we have often heard of a second or third caliper failing. ???

OK -- Amended comment:
We (iRV2 members) have not seen or heard of any (new Interim) replacement calipers failing however when an owner installs a new (Interim) caliper we have often heard of an (existing) second or third caliper failing (read old caliper).

iRV2 members have not seen or heard of any new Interim replacement calipers failing however when an owner installs a new Interim caliper we have often heard of an existing second or third caliper failing.

The strongest "whatever" is only as strong as the weakest link .... therefore if there is a caliper opposite of a new caliper, I would almost bet that it will soon present a problem. We all have seen quite a few times where the problem will also shift to a different axle so there really isn't any science to support my theory however those are my observations.

Since we were teenagers we have always been taught to replace calipers and other brake components in pairs and the results of not doing so are evident. This is why I hate aftermarket insurance companies .. they will only authorize and fix the component that broke regardless if the other side of that issue has now become the weakest link.

[vacation on wheels]

Driver, you know the only reason that Workhorse and Bosch won't pay for replacement calipers in this extended interim time, is that they would have to then pay again once the upgraded calipers are ready for the recall. But is it ok to just tell the motorhome owner, tough luck, you pay for a caliper now and then we will replace that soon-to-be-defective caliper when we are ready? I would think some common sense needs to be addressed during this extended interim time. Fair is fair, isn't it? How's this for fair in this interim time; If a vehicle owner has a brake caliper piston lock-up and the shop proves with a test strip that the brake fluid had recently been replaced (showing that the owner is trying to be responsible) that Workhorse should pick-up the tab on the interim caliper. Seems about as fair as possible in the real world don't you think?

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by vacation on wheels

Driver, you know the only reason that Workhorse and Bosch won't pay for replacement calipers in this extended interim time, is that they would have to then pay again once the upgraded calipers are ready for the recall.

You are making a blanket statement when the fact of the matter is that it's not true. There have been a great many owners that have been reimbursed their brake caliper/rotor expenses and it continues to happen on a daily basis. Not everyone will qualify and that's regrettable however I didn't make the rules. I can only write about what I have seen in print that's available to all of us.

But is it ok to just tell the motorhome owner, tough luck, you pay for a caliper now and then we will replace that soon-to-be-defective caliper when we are ready?

I can't speculate on your opinion. All the calipers will be replaced as soon as possible.

If a vehicle owner has a brake caliper piston lock-up and the shop proves with a test strip that the brake fluid had recently been replaced (showing that the owner is trying to be responsible) that Workhorse should pick-up the tab on the interim caliper. Seems about as fair as possible in the real world don't you think?

I have not heard of this being predicated prior to a caliper seizure operation. The center is not going to be looking at fluid nor are they going to stick the Hydro-Max or caliper brake fluid because in just about each and every case there will be trace amounts or more of water in brake fluid.

There is nothing to suggest that an owner who is diligent in changing their fluid has not otherwise compromised their brakes by questionable vehicle operation. Everything has to be ruled out.

This evening on the News, "Heaven Forbid!" The Toyota folks were saying that some of the cases they were investigating could have been driver error.

What is fair is that the conditions under which the brakes will be eligible for reimbursement have all be detailed in the repair procedure which was developed by NHTSA.