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Old 12-28-2008, 09:10 AM   #1
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I like to hear from people with the Banks on W-22 , 8.1 chassis. Both my catalytic converters are damaged, and I am told by a very reputable shop that the Banks system is to blame because they changed the location of the O2 sensors.Banks says that they move the sensors just a little bit and according to them it will not make a difference.
Is there a fix to this problem or do I have to do away with the Banks alltogether and go back to the stock manifolds ? Will the O2 location cause that type of damage ?
Thanks in advance.

w-22 8.1, 2004 Winnebago Adventure

Pete
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:37 AM   #2
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Though I can not help you with the solution I can explain the problem.

You want warranty repair

It is in the best interests of those who have to pay should it be a warranty repair to find a reason to deny warranty payment.

Banks made a change.. Thus the folks responsible for the Catalytic converters are going to "Shift the blame" any way they can.

Standard American Business Practice.

Alas. In this games there is one car dealer who hit it on the head.. He and his customer had reached a negotiated settlement.. The reporter asked the dealer "Well, WHO WON?"

The Dealer replied: "The Lawyers"

And I fear, that may be your solution.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:49 AM   #3
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As a retired mechanic I will tell you that your reputable services are a crock and full of it. In all my years working for GM we had quite a few trucks that had the banks system put on them. Your the second person or maybe the same person making this comment if you made it on an earlier post or on a post in another forum. If it would affect yours it would affect the thousands of others who have had it done.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:43 PM   #4
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Thank you for your reply Lee, but I am confused about what you think the intent of my post was.
You wrote:

"If it would affect yours it would affect the thousands of others who have had it done".

The thousands who have done it are the ones I am trying to reach, find out who is right and what they have done to solve the problem.
And no, I have not posted this comments here or anywhere else.
It is also plausible that Banks have not changed the location of the O2 sensors before, but they have now, and could be affecting the performance of their systems. I do not know.
This is why I came here to here from personal experiences. This forum is very helpful.

Pete
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:58 PM   #5
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Just my 2 cents worth on this subject...I have tested the 8.1L with and without the Banks system. True, the o2 sensors are relocated slightly to the rear because of the configuration of the headers, but they are still located forward of the cats. The difference I see is the Banks config causes the LTFT's (Long Term Fuel Trims)to go in the positive. That means the computer is adding additional fuel to achieve the 14.7 to 1 air/fuel mixture. This is usually not enough of a change to trigger a "Check Engine" light or create converter 'meltdown'. One of the purposes of the o2 sensors is to monitor and protect the converters and should have triggered the "CE" light if anything in the system was causing them grief. Are you sure that the cats are bad?
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:18 PM   #6
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My 03' W20 was recalled for the cats. They replaced both of them under the recall.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:22 PM   #7
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DKK47, I installed the banks kit on my motorhome four years and 50,000 miles ago and so far no problems with it. I don't see where moving the sensor's a few inches would affect the exhaust temp that heats the senor enough to change the air/fuel sampling.

I could see if moving the sensor to far back that it might not get hot enough to correctly read/adjust the mixture and possible richen it up which could end up cloging the converter...

Just my .02.... Jack
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:51 PM   #8
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Yes Steve, the cats are bad. I had a shop actually take them down and visually inspect them.Now that you mentioned LTFT, I have a handheld gauge from Banks that tells me the LTFT is about 19% , is this within range?
If the Banks alteration is not enough to cause the cats to plug, what could have cause it ?
Thank you everyone for the help.

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Old 12-28-2008, 03:15 PM   #9
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dkk47,
Yes, 19% is high, it's having to add 19% more fuel to achieve 14.7 to 1, ideally, 0% is the target. GM says +/-10%. The fact that it is having to add fuel means that the MAF sensor and the o2 sensors aren't agreeing on how much fuel the engine needs. For every 14.7 lbs of air the MAF will signal 1 lb of fuel. I find that at 19%, either the MAF is out of calibration or there is an exhaust and/or intake leak causing a 'lean' condition. Converters can more easily handle a rich condition since the fuel actually cools them, a lean condition causes more harm quicker.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:54 PM   #10
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Steve is right on the money... We went thru this on my coach and I don't have a Banks system. I checked for intake & exhaust leaks and was even going to swap O2 sensors. I did swap the MAF and there was no change. So we did some scan and Steve calibrated my MAF for my UltraPower tune and it made a big difference.
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:05 PM   #11
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Steve, should I replace O2 sensors and MAF ?
Besides cats ofcourse !!!! Could the plugged cats be causing the miscommunication between MAF and O2 sensors ? How you suggest I best resolve this problem ?
Thank you for your time.
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:34 AM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKK47:
How you suggest I best resolve this problem ?
Thank you for your time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>DKK47, Take a 73 mile run over to Redlands Trucks & RV Performance Center in Redlands, CA and go and see Keith. He will be able to DX your situation and resolve it in the least amount of time. That's what I would do.
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:16 AM   #13
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dkk47,
DriVer is correct,take it to Redlands.... there are a number of things that can cause the problem, I would not want to see you throw a bunch of parts at it without some good diagnostic data. It's possible the sensors have failed, or it could be that they are sensing correctly and there is a fuel delivery problem that needs attention.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:01 PM   #14
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Thank you all for the help, specially Steve from Brazels, you guys are a class act. Hope to meet you at Quartzsite.
When I make some progress I will report back.

Happy New Year to all
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