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Old 09-21-2008, 06:52 AM   #15
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Yes as FRR pointed out we do advertise an increase in fuel mileage of 1-3 mpg in many cases, we do not guaranty that this is going to be everybody's experience. There are too many variables affecting fuel mileage that we cannot control, driving habits and other systems on the vehicle that may be out of spec. We do however guaranty satisfaction for our customers with our product. If FRR is not happy with his UltraPower we can do one of two things, refund his money and send him an ecm that has been calibrated back to stock, or send a newly calibrated UltraPower ecm. In the case of not noticing any performance or mpg increase as FRR has made us all aware of, I suspect that a scan of sensor data would provide answers to what's going on.
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:43 AM   #16
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For those of you that think $800 is to costly just stop and think what it cost to produce the product.

In the beginning I too UltraPower was over priced and bought a cheap tune... I won't repeat that story. But, I will tell you that I thought I would do my own...being that I figure I am pretty smart guy and an ex programmer. It didn't take long to find out how wrong I was. The first thing was the cost of the "Tuner" program. By the time you buy the code, hardware and the "LICENSES" you could have $3 or $4,000 invested. Now you need to learn how to do the tune. You can take course on "How to" for another $2 grand.

Now consider that Brazel's has a chassis dyno to do the testing and building to hold it. That cost alone almost justifies the tune. Now add in say 18 months to 2 years of R&D.... Remember, no UltraPowers are be sold to cover the cost of this and add in the labor and burden rate. So, that means the rest of his business has to prick up the cost or it comes out of his pocket.

Now how do you market this product... You go to rallies... not cheap. You get guys like me to do the install... If you think you can just take your laptop and hit the road then jump in and get you feet wet. Do not be surprised though if you find yourself a couple of grand in the hole before the first year is over as you need to buy some hardware, set up a business, get a sales tax stamp in some states and few other annoying items. OBTW - I had to apply for a sales tax license and will have to pay quarterly sales taxes in SC at the rally.

The bottom line is $795 is really not all that bad!
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:06 AM   #17
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Hello,
Let's forget the "B Dyno". What are the actual numbers in relation to the stock curves? Someone, please post the charts.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:23 PM   #18
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Randy, here are the #'s from the dyno charts that were run on mine at the Centralia shop. The MH is an '02 Winnebago Brave 30W with a 4L80E tranny. The charts were run 03/07/06, the mileage was 46,516, the mileage now is 72,086.

Stock at the wheels in 3rd gear (these are the peak readings)

274HP @ 3190 rpm
428 ft lb tq @ 2500 rpm

After UP mod

332HP @ 3450 rpm
485 ft lb tq @ 2750 rpm

These are the peak readings on the dyno charts. On the stock run the HP was fairly flat from 3,000 to 3,500 rpm and the torque was about the same from 2,300 to 2,850 rpm.

After the UP mod the flatter areas of the chart were, HP from 3,100 to 3,800 rpm and the torque was from 2,200 to 3,250 rpm.

Tom
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:00 PM   #19
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Tom,
That seems awful weak for an 8.1. Brazels, please post some HP/Torque charts.
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:11 PM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knebrdr:
Tom,
That seems awful weak for an 8.1. Brazels, please post some HP/Torque charts.
Randy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>knebrdr, This is horsepower and torque on the ground and not measured in a lab at the flywheel.
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:39 PM   #21
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The average stock HP number for an 8.1L is around 270 at the ground. Remember that the numbers GM/Workhorse claim, and any other manufacturer included, is measured with the engine on the stand running on an engine dyno. This doesn't account for driveline loss, which is about 20-30%.

I will post up some dyno graphs when I get into the office on monday!
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:40 PM   #22
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I snagged this from Steve Brazel's Power Point Presentation.



Different Rig Test

Before



After



UFO Test

Before

]

After

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Old 09-21-2008, 04:48 PM   #23
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Oemy, Looks like the HP on my charts are about the same as the ones on Brazels chart. The big difference in his and mine are the torque values. The stock torque on mine was 38 ft lbs higher than his, after the UP was installed it was 27 ft lbs higher.

Tom
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:34 PM   #24
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Are these charts from back to back runs on the same vehicle?
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:26 PM   #25
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knebrdr:
Tom,
That seems awful weak for an 8.1. Brazels, please post some HP/Torque charts.
Randy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>knebrdr, This is horsepower and torque on the ground and not measured in a lab at the flywheel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Randy, according to my math the HP at the flywheel after the UP mod is 412HP and 515FT LBS TQ.

The formula is (274 divided by 340)=(332 divided by X) is the HP at the flywheel. If you cross multiply, 340 X 332 = 112,880. This is equal to 274 times X. 112,880 divided by 274 = X. Therefore X = 411.97 HP at the flywheel.

For tq it is (428 divided by 455)=(485 divided by X), cross multiplying 455 X 485 = 220,675 this is equal to 428 times X. 220,675 divided by 428 = X. So X is equal to 515.6 ftlbs of torque at the flywheel.

This is if the stock engine was 340 HP and 455 ftlbs of torque at the flywheel. At least I think my calculations are right.

Tom
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:02 PM   #26
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I read your report on "Basement AC Repair Procedure". I have a National Dolphin with basement air which I believe is identical to your unit. This is one of the best written posts I have ever read. Nice work. I'll print a copy just in case I need to work on my AC.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:29 PM   #27
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Well guys I have been running some tests on my way to Myrtle Beach. I did the tests on I20 between Shreveport, LA and Meridian, MS.. That was after a 3 hr detour just out side of Shreveport for a accident. O well I got to see Grambling University as the detour went right though the middle of the campus.

Back to the test.. At 55mph I ran 8.4 bucking a slight head wind. If bumped it up to 60 it dropped to 8.2. Now after the wind stopped I was running 8.6 to 8.8 and it did not seem to make a difference of I was running 55 or 60. I even ran it up to 62 for awhile. I caught little tail wind and saw 9.0 to 9.3 and even 9.6 running 58 to 62 mph.

I never saw this kind of consistent mileage before UltraPower. I had almost no 3 gear runs unless I was sleeping at the switch and didn't push it out of OD before cruise did. I even pulled a couple big rigs up some short hills.
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:23 AM   #28
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Dale, do you have your Ultrapower tuned for power or mileage? Also, what weight are you running including your toad?
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